Oh that is so clever. Waaay better than the kitchen floor and bar stools.OK, so after playing with these, first I put them on a carpeted slant board I made. Then I thought, this doesn't account for long leg, short leg and put them on a balance board that I have, that on top of the slant board!
It's not connected, very hard to get onto, but once on it, it actually works. It does in effect create excessive inside ski tip lead, so as @LiquidFeet has said it would be nice for them to be able to slide fore/aft as well lol!
Check out the pictures:
View attachment 108012 View attachment 108013 View attachment 108014 View attachment 108015 View attachment 108016 View attachment 108017
OK, so after playing with these, first I put them on a carpeted slant board I made. Then I thought, this doesn't account for long leg, short leg and put them on a balance board that I have, that on top of the slant board!
It's not connected, very hard to get onto, but once on it, it actually works. It does in effect create excessive inside ski tip lead, so as @LiquidFeet has said it would be nice for them to be able to slide fore/aft as well lol!
Check out the pictures:
View attachment 108012 View attachment 108013 View attachment 108014 View attachment 108015 View attachment 108016 View attachment 108017
Yeah, but bar stools are pretty cool.Oh that is so clever. Waaay better than the kitchen floor and bar stools.
I don't know if they come in different sizes, but I found a video of rotator pilates discs and they're pretty large and thus put your feet pretty far apart. For $80, building one like Chris built would be a lot less.
@Chris, just slide the inside foot back into the place where it belongs, uphill of the other one. Just slide it. Simple. Socks on hard floor are slippery.
Yes, you need your weight mostly on the other foot when you do this. Is that what you want me to say?
Rotate the new inside foot in a pivot slip or skidded turn at initiation, and slide it a week bit back uphill at the skis point out to the side, so your CoM is below it on the hill. Do not slide it back in the direction the heel points, but back sideways, so it ends up lined up just like the disks will have it except it's "back" uphill of you. So you won't fall over. "Back" sideways.
Oh here are words for this. As the new inside foot rotates, slide it "back" towards its little toe edge, sideways as you rotate it to point across the hill. Keep hips pointing downhill-ish.
One more attempt at clarification, assuming words have failed to paint the right picture -- imagine in a pivot slip you are sliding down the hill on two railroad tracks that go down the fall line. Each ski is permanently attached to one of the tracks. Those tracks are hip-width apart. Each ski is allowed to rotate under the back of the arch of its foot while it is sliding downhill on the track. The skis can slide uphill or downhill freely, and rotate freely, but they must stay on the tracks.
Now slide the inside ski up a little as you rotate it so the skis won't bump into each other, and make sure it gets a bit uphill of your CoM, so your CoM is between the skis. Do this with each pivot in a pivot slip. Do it in real turns that you choose to complete. In those real turns, your skis will be traveling along a sideways figure eight beneath you.
Done. This is so hard to say in words. I need a picture. Or a video.
Thanks @Chris Geib I am not very handy, but this took me about ½ hour to make and works great. Small table saw, only 2 kickbacks which fortunately didn't injure me.
View attachment 107949 View attachment 107950
...It does in effect create excessive inside ski tip lead, so as @LiquidFeet has said it would be nice for them to be able to slide fore/aft as well lol!..
Hi LF,
Not "wanting" you to say anything in particular! Simply curious about how you see this is all.
I understand about the words; I have heard it said that words are a terrible way to communicate Nonetheless, I follow. I think there can be many ways to experience and communicate these. Pivot slips are simple and complicated!
I like to think of pivot slips taking place in neutral with our line of action resolving between our feet and as we rotate the skis more out of the fall line the pressure will bias more to the down hill ski and I can see how your direction to slide the inside foot a wee bit uphill while having more weight on the downhill foot can work and be consistent when carried to snow.
Maybe there are other alternatives? What if we allowed the outside foot to slide down a bit without changing the weight bias from it? If you look at the image of DeAnn you see her outside foot has not turned as far as the inside foot. I experience the same thing as I have greater external rotation than I do internal rotation and the femur of my outside foot reaches end of travel before coming 90* across the fall line, so my outside hip needs to advance that wee bit you speak of so my outside ski can make 90* across the fall line. What if when we reach this end of travel (or the point the skis would start overlapping) we then continue with the rotation we have below the knee and allow the outside ski to flatten a bit more than the inside ski allowing a weathervane effect so the downhill ski advances even though weight is biased there and we allow it to pull the outside hip forward a wee bit as well creating a slightly anticipated position. Naturally we are continuing to apply crank to the outside ski to assist and it can almost feel like the feet pull the hips around slightly.
I feel we can control this more accurately and respond to variations underfoot by modulating edging foot to foot but it is really a combination of both I expect and the line between edging and pressure blurs a bit while slipping down the hill - which cannot be replicated in socks on the hardwood floor.
The words are a bit murky with the CoM bit in this post and the preceding, but we've thrashed this horse before. The CoM needs to move forward and back in response to and/or anticipation of the resistance (or lack of) underfoot. I think we want to maintain our neutral centered resultant at the back of the arch and the CoM (way up there above the feet) may be ahead, over or behind our feet while slipping. Standing on the bus: are we traveling at the same rate as the bus, is the bus accelerating under foot, is the bus decelerating under foot.
I completely agree with the feet on rails! And I appreciated that detail as many in fact rotate the pelvis and put both feet a single rail.
Thank you for taking the time to explain!
Best,
Chris
Hi Steve,
Net I would expect tip lead to more or less equal the width the feet are apart unless on something stupid steep. But why do pivot slips on a steep slope, that's easy. Pick flatter slopes
Best,
Chris
Hi Steve,
How is excessive tip lead created?
Your resulting tip lead would be exactly the distance your feet are apart on the turntables. Same in a pivot slip on snow if you keep your feet on the two rails that @LiquidFeet described. On a slope you might also gain a bit as the leg length difference takes place to accommodate the pitch of the slope and maybe lose a bit as the hips wind in a very slight bit at the end of rotation across the hill.
Net I would expect tip lead to more or less equal the width the feet are apart unless on something stupid steep. But why do pivot slips on a steep slope, that's easy. Pick flatter slopes
Best,
Chris
Well.... it depends on your intent. The intent of this device is to train rotation. Pivot slips are the embodiment of that motion and leads to efficient movement patterns in bumps, short radius turns, trees etc.
If you are in a PSIA L2 examine, and demoing pivot slips, we want to see that uphill ski lead. We want to see space between your thighs - because that also shows that your hips are facing down the fall line. No space and it is an axiom that your hips are not facing down the fall line. That shows that rotation is coming from your lumbar - not femurs in hip sockets.
Some of these discussions about technique are hard for me to follow so I appreciate your very clear explanation here. Thanks!
My pleasure. Check out the video for. Check out how stable the hips / upper body are. everything happens from the hip sockets down.
There is definitely a benefit to executing pivot slips in a wider corridor. In teaching a bumps progression we teach a forward side slip, to a pivot slip. Ideally we might have some chucky snow. A student forward side slips to the bump / chunk and then pivots on it to change direction. Doing pivot slips in a wider corridor - where you inentiionally have some forward / aft slipage helps build awareness of "center".
I like to drill pure pivot slips first thing in the AM, on corduroy. I pick a few ridges in the corduroy, and try to keep the distal point of my tibia right on those few ridges - no forward. No back. Looking back on my tracks I can use the visual features of the corduroy and my tracks, to gauge how precise my movements were.
Enjoy.
The mobility exercises one? I did and saved the link.
What’s nice with my device is that I don’t have to rotate my feet/legs. The act of shifting my weight to one side, that leg going down creates the rotation passively.