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KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
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You must feel the force flowing within you.

Yup, must feel the bump.
Spent the 16/17 season at W/B. Saw the sun may be 10 days in 3-1/2 month.
I swear I must have felt every bump in Whistler Bowl. Most times with my skis. Sometimes with my face.

Thought about adding this to my wardrobe half way through the season.

Blind Sier Vest.jpg
 

Plai

Paul Lai
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Welcome to W/B. SOP everyday.

Don't need no stinking short turns. More like matching the turns to the bumps.
Feel. Feel with your skis (feet). Like reading braille except with your feet. Feel the bumps.
No use looking for things you can't see. Use your other senses when you are blind.

{In green puppet voice}
Hmmm.... I your bump Padawan maybe?
 

James

Out There
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Dec 2, 2015
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24,849
Yep, go to Taos for bumps. They rarely turn them off. The Ski Week there has been the best deal in instruction anywhere. They like teaching bumps and have their own low impact method.
The nutjob above^ and wife will ski bumps for hours and hours using the method. It's not zipperline.
 

skier

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Great job Josh. I like the skiing, and this is truly excellent foruming, a benefit and entertainment for all. Given your description of all the different techniques employed, the skiing was remarkably fluid and continuous.

I watched it while sitting comfortably in my arm chair, and you're right. Even with a fair amount of experience with ice and with video, I still couldn't relate those conditions to my personal experience with confidence. Can you describe the conditions a little more? What was the temperature? What was the weather on the days before? It looks like loose granular. Also, it seems you're generating some forces. Some types of icy bumps give you absolutely nothing to stand on. The feet always have to be under you, otherwise you're down. Maybe I just don't have the skill to hold an edge on ice. I'm always curious about that. I can believe that skill has a huge roll with holding an edge while carving on icy groomers, because it's about balance and a gradual building of the forces, but in the bumps with the ground rising and falling under the edge, you can't maintain enough edge with a bent ski to gradually build forces, and there's nothing that can be done in certain conditions, or so I think.
 
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Josh Matta

Josh Matta

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Great job Josh. I like the skiing, and this is truly excellent foruming, a benefit and entertainment for all. Given your description of all the different techniques employed, the skiing was remarkably fluid and continuous.

thanks for the kind words @skier.

sometime stamps for the technique/tactics used

Drift to get to the place where the bump is useful and not harmful at :02

lateral rotary push off hop to clear a trough line. @:05 second, honestly I screw this up and end up back and inside but the edge set brings back into balance

rotary push off with out stemming at :08

nice round turns from :09 to :13

hop turns on the spine of the bumps to avoid really slick trough :16

nose wheelie hop turn, this is the only time the rotation point is not under my foot, and instead at the tips :24

:29 seconds to :33 second there is the Stem Steps hop turns to rotary push off back to down the hill offensive skiing. Making the wedge great again.




I watched it while sitting comfortably in my arm chair, and you're right. Even with a fair amount of experience with ice and with video, I still couldn't relate those conditions to my personal experience with confidence. Can you describe the conditions a little more? What was the temperature? What was the weather on the days before? It looks like loose granular.

so the day before is irrelevant, All you need to know is this was filmed on thursday, on sunday it was 45 degree with rain, and has been much below freezing till when this was filmed, there was 6 inches of really wind blown cold snow that feel on tuesday. This snow was super kind to some parts of the hill, and in other parts basically non existent. This was a place where yes there was loose cold mid winter snow, but not enough to really improve the skiing, it does make it look less than icey.



Also, it seems you're generating some forces. Some types of icy bumps give you absolutely nothing to stand on. The feet always have to be under you, otherwise you're down. Maybe I just don't have the skill to hold an edge on ice. I'm always curious about that.

Well I am going to toot my own horn here alittle. While I think alot of people think of me of this powerful balls to wall the skier, and if you watch me ski GS turns, or Crud that is what you would think, the reality is though I spend a ton of time skiing slow, skiing slow short turns, and working on skills, not to mention my time on snow gives me some crazy good touch. As for generating forces I think its possible even on uneven ice on the right ski to get some edge angle, as long as its progressive and built though out the turn. The right ski IMO is basically any metal laminate ski with 18-21 meter sidecut and sharp edges. I actually prefer in the bumps and a sharp 1/2 over a 1/3 as it lets me drift on a edge better. On really icey days I even do a down burr under my foot to get a spot on my skis that will not slip no matter what. The skis in the video are 185cm 93mm wide, and tuned to a sharp 1 and 2.

also in the bumps, I look at the bump as terrain enhancement. There is almost texture and/or a bank to get the ski to turn on. Finding those spots(tactics) can be more than half the battle while skiing in off piste conditions like shown. Yes you need to have reasonable skills to get the point that your feet are exactly where you want them, with balance on the outside ski all the time, but learning the tactic can be all a strong athletic L6-L7 needs to be able to navigate terrain like this.



I can believe that skill has a huge roll with holding an edge while carving on icy groomers, because it's about balance and a gradual building of the forces, but in the bumps with the ground rising and falling under the edge, you can't maintain enough edge with a bent ski to gradually build forces, and there's nothing that can be done in certain conditions, or so I think.

yeah again it comes down to some of the comments I made above. One thing people tend to do in bumps that makes things worse for them, in all bumps and not just ice bumps is to do things to quickly and never get the ski to cut or bend into the snow. Also the quickness put them on the backside trough line of the bump which is slipperiest spot on the slope, and also the steepest, both are no good.

Even in the icest of bumps when hoping turning down the spines becomes the only really safe option there is still ski performance and that ski performance lets the ski cut. I will also say the equipment plays an extremely important role as well. I freeski in basically unbendable boot, which lets me dictate pressure control along the ski why quicker than a softer boot, and again ski matter, moderate sidecut, vertical side wall, metal laminate skis are my choice for skiing like this. My 3 favorite skis for bumps like this are 181cm Blizzard GSR master ski, 177cm Head Monster 83, and my 185cm Nordica E93, I also like my 180cm Brahma, but almost never ski them.... A ski I hate in bumps like this are my 179cm Salomon XDR 84ti, the sidecut is just to extreme and the tip even with my skills is basically impossible to control in hard bumps, it is a fun carver though.

a good example of the berm line aka using the bumps to enhance your turn by them constantly riding the berm is this video I made a couple year ago. I will come clean though, the line being skied here was made by more over literally 100s of runs. Once the line is set its hard for lesser skier to unset, people who heel push and edge set, will typically just hate round bumps. I wish I could clone myself and go make round turns everywhere so I never have to demo the skiing shown in the video in the OP again.

 
Last edited:

skier

Getting on the lift
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266
thanks for the kind words @skier.

sometime stamps for the technique/tactics used

Drift to get to the place where the bump is useful and not harmful at :02

lateral rotary push off hop to clear a trough line. @:05 second, honestly I screw this up and end up back and inside but the edge set brings back into balance

rotary push off with out stemming at :08

nice round turns from :09 to :13

hop turns on the spine of the bumps to avoid really slick trough :16

nose wheelie hop turn, this is the only time the rotation point is not under my foot, and instead at the tips :24

:29 seconds to :33 second there is the Stem Steps hop turns to rotary push off back to down the hill offensive skiing. Making the wedge great again.






so the day before is irrelevant, All you need to know is this was filmed on thursday, on sunday it was 45 degree with rain, and has been much below freezing till when this was filmed, there was 6 inches of really wind blown cold snow that feel on tuesday. This snow was super kind to some parts of the hill, and in other parts basically non existent. This was a place where yes there was loose cold mid winter snow, but not enough to really improve the skiing, it does make it look less than icey.





Well I am going to toot my own horn here alittle. While I think alot of people think of me of this powerful balls to wall the skier, and if you watch me ski GS turns, or Crud that is what you would think, the reality is though I spend a ton of time skiing slow, skiing slow short turns, and working on skills, not to mention my time on snow gives me some crazy good touch. As for generating forces I think its possible even on uneven ice on the right ski to get some edge angle, as long as its progressive and built though out the turn. The right ski IMO is basically any metal laminate ski with 18-21 meter sidecut and sharp edges. I actually prefer in the bumps and a sharp 1/2 over a 1/3 as it lets me drift on a edge better. On really icey days I even do a down burr under my foot to get a spot on my skis that will not slip no matter what. The skis in the video are 185cm 93mm wide, and tuned to a sharp 1 and 2.

also in the bumps, I look at the bump as terrain enhancement. There is almost texture and/or a bank to get the ski to turn on. Finding those spots(tactics) can be more than half the battle while skiing in off piste conditions like shown. Yes you need to have reasonable skills to get the point that your feet are exactly where you want them, with balance on the outside ski all the time, but learning the tactic can be all a strong athletic L6-L7 needs to be able to navigate terrain like this.





yeah again it comes down to some of the comments I made above. One thing people tend to do in bumps that makes things worse for them, in all bumps and not just ice bumps is to do things to quickly and never get the ski to cut or bend into the snow. Also the quickness put them on the backside trough line of the bump which is slipperiest spot on the slope, and also the steepest, both are no good.

Even in the icest of bumps when hoping turning down the spines becomes the only really safe option there is still ski performance and that ski performance lets the ski cut. I will also say the equipment plays an extremely important role as well. I freeski in basically unbendable boot, which lets me dictate pressure control along the ski why quicker than a softer boot, and again ski matter, moderate sidecut, vertical side wall, metal laminate skis are my choice for skiing like this. My 3 favorite skis for bumps like this are 181cm Blizzard GSR master ski, 177cm Head Monster 83, and my 185cm Nordica E93, I also like my 180cm Brahma, but almost never ski them.... A ski I hate in bumps like this are my 179cm Salomon XDR 84ti, the sidecut is just to extreme and the tip even with my skills is basically impossible to control in hard bumps, it is a fun carver though.

a good example of the berm line aka using the bumps to enhance your turn by them constantly riding the berm is this video I made a couple year ago. I will come clean though, the line being skied here was made by more over literally 100s of runs. Once the line is set its hard for lesser skier to unset, people who heel push and edge set, will typically just hate round bumps. I wish I could clone myself and go make round turns everywhere so I never have to demo the skiing shown in the video in the OP again.


Thanks for the play by play, very interesting. At 05, you said you screwed it up. What would you have done differently?

My favorite turns are the 3-4 turns starting at :37.

I tend to be a little too lazy tuning my skis. I have tuned my own skis, though I wasn't able to follow all the details you described (1/2 over a 1/3, sharp 1 and 2). I'll have to read up on it.

I saw your slow line video when you originally posted it. I watched it a number of times.

I'll try to get some icy bump videos to share at some point. We have no shortage of icy bumps, however, getting someone to ski them with me to film is a challenge. I was looking through my helmet cam footage to see if I had any on a rock hard surface, but I couldn't find anything worth posting.
 

skier

Getting on the lift
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Posts
266
thanks for the kind words @skier.

sometime stamps for the technique/tactics used

Drift to get to the place where the bump is useful and not harmful at :02

lateral rotary push off hop to clear a trough line. @:05 second, honestly I screw this up and end up back and inside but the edge set brings back into balance

rotary push off with out stemming at :08

nice round turns from :09 to :13

hop turns on the spine of the bumps to avoid really slick trough :16

nose wheelie hop turn, this is the only time the rotation point is not under my foot, and instead at the tips :24

:29 seconds to :33 second there is the Stem Steps hop turns to rotary push off back to down the hill offensive skiing. Making the wedge great again.






so the day before is irrelevant, All you need to know is this was filmed on thursday, on sunday it was 45 degree with rain, and has been much below freezing till when this was filmed, there was 6 inches of really wind blown cold snow that feel on tuesday. This snow was super kind to some parts of the hill, and in other parts basically non existent. This was a place where yes there was loose cold mid winter snow, but not enough to really improve the skiing, it does make it look less than icey.





Well I am going to toot my own horn here alittle. While I think alot of people think of me of this powerful balls to wall the skier, and if you watch me ski GS turns, or Crud that is what you would think, the reality is though I spend a ton of time skiing slow, skiing slow short turns, and working on skills, not to mention my time on snow gives me some crazy good touch. As for generating forces I think its possible even on uneven ice on the right ski to get some edge angle, as long as its progressive and built though out the turn. The right ski IMO is basically any metal laminate ski with 18-21 meter sidecut and sharp edges. I actually prefer in the bumps and a sharp 1/2 over a 1/3 as it lets me drift on a edge better. On really icey days I even do a down burr under my foot to get a spot on my skis that will not slip no matter what. The skis in the video are 185cm 93mm wide, and tuned to a sharp 1 and 2.

also in the bumps, I look at the bump as terrain enhancement. There is almost texture and/or a bank to get the ski to turn on. Finding those spots(tactics) can be more than half the battle while skiing in off piste conditions like shown. Yes you need to have reasonable skills to get the point that your feet are exactly where you want them, with balance on the outside ski all the time, but learning the tactic can be all a strong athletic L6-L7 needs to be able to navigate terrain like this.





yeah again it comes down to some of the comments I made above. One thing people tend to do in bumps that makes things worse for them, in all bumps and not just ice bumps is to do things to quickly and never get the ski to cut or bend into the snow. Also the quickness put them on the backside trough line of the bump which is slipperiest spot on the slope, and also the steepest, both are no good.

Even in the icest of bumps when hoping turning down the spines becomes the only really safe option there is still ski performance and that ski performance lets the ski cut. I will also say the equipment plays an extremely important role as well. I freeski in basically unbendable boot, which lets me dictate pressure control along the ski why quicker than a softer boot, and again ski matter, moderate sidecut, vertical side wall, metal laminate skis are my choice for skiing like this. My 3 favorite skis for bumps like this are 181cm Blizzard GSR master ski, 177cm Head Monster 83, and my 185cm Nordica E93, I also like my 180cm Brahma, but almost never ski them.... A ski I hate in bumps like this are my 179cm Salomon XDR 84ti, the sidecut is just to extreme and the tip even with my skills is basically impossible to control in hard bumps, it is a fun carver though.

a good example of the berm line aka using the bumps to enhance your turn by them constantly riding the berm is this video I made a couple year ago. I will come clean though, the line being skied here was made by more over literally 100s of runs. Once the line is set its hard for lesser skier to unset, people who heel push and edge set, will typically just hate round bumps. I wish I could clone myself and go make round turns everywhere so I never have to demo the skiing shown in the video in the OP again.


I figured out you're talking about base bevel versus side bevel, but I wasn't able to find out what is a "down burr"?
 

Fuller

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Whitefish or Florida
When you create a ridge of metal that hangs down below the polished edge, not the whole length of the ski - just underfoot. . Don't ask me how, filing downward and leaving the burr I guess. Presumably it would resist the sideways slide when you are loading the outside ski. If it was that icy I wouldn't be near any moguls.
 
Thread Starter
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Josh Matta

Josh Matta

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@Fuller has it exactly right. on real ice a burred ski will still slide, but it will grip when you want it to as well.
 
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Josh Matta

Josh Matta

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Why is that?

on groomers the Monster 83s or my E93 feel way better and really dont give up much off trail, in fact on open(as in open space) bumps runs I would always rather be on the monster 83.

I would like to sell the Brahmas to try something else if you want them.
 

skier

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I will come clean though, the line being skied here was made by more over literally 100s of runs. Once the line is set its hard for lesser skier to unset, people who heel push and edge set, will typically just hate round bumps. I wish I could clone myself and go make round turns everywhere so I never have to demo the skiing shown in the video in the OP again.

I can tell someone loves moguls as much as me when they've built their own lines. It's maybe a little self indulgent, but the lines become a perfect fit for the builder's turn style and ski type. I find my own lines some of the most fun, and the competitive side of me gets a kick out of watching people try to hold it and get kicked out.

I don't like the round lines that much, but maybe not for the reasons you'd think. Carving the skis throughout the turn, building forces, is incredibly fun. I love it. The best place to get that sensation is on the groomed runs where the conditions are more consistent. It seems to me there's an overabundance of groomed runs. By the time I have some good moguls, I'm after something different, something much more fun for me. It's less about the feeling of arcing, though there is some of that, and more about the feeling of flying and rapid reactions. It's a feeling I can only get in the moguls, and there's a speed for me where it's the best. The round lines end up not giving me that sensation, because they are too slow. So, to speed things up you have to start cutting more directly across the traversing wall. Naturally cut faster lines feel so smooth like skiing powder. Cutting across these slower lines doesn't feel as smooth. Also, if it's a little icy on the backside, then there's this force that wants to keep pulling the skis to the side sucking them into the bank. The tips are driving into the wall at a little angle, and if there's no grip on the tail then it will just spin sliding into the bank. I've seen where that banked wall is an overhang, and it's a battle to pick up speed in a fun way without getting sucked into that cave. Places like Mary Jane are a blast, because there are lots of good mogul skiers searching for the same sensations, and they're cutting the lines in a way that makes the skiing very fun.

One of the worst features comes from people that can't string together more than four turns without blowing up, so you get three nice turns then a huge bank across the line. I suppose some feel they are being creative, not constrained to the line, but they happen to be creative just at the time they couldn't make the next turn anyway. This is worse than a consistent series of round turns, because the wall can be huge, and cutting across it not safe.
 

Pumba

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@Josh Matta if possible, can you post more videos of yourself or others skiing real ice in control - mainly groomers. Trying to learn this myself.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Josh Matta

Josh Matta

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@Josh Matta if possible, can you post more videos of yourself or others skiing real ice in control - mainly groomers. Trying to learn this myself.

Thanks in advance.

Will do maybe even as early as tomorrow considering I think all the bumps runs are closed(but tree runs are not closed)

With that said IMO icey groomers are actually more difficult to ski than icey bumps, and on icey groomers your tune and your alignment start to matter a ton, even more so than bumps.
 

Dwight

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Will do maybe even as early as tomorrow considering I think all the bumps runs are closed(but tree runs are not closed)

With that said IMO icey groomers are actually more difficult to ski than icey bumps, and on icey groomers your tune and your alignment start to matter a ton, even more so than bumps.

Sharp edges are essential, otherwise you might as well being do side slides. :)
 

jzmtl

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Looks fun, wish we had bumps to ski on, but last Saturday's rain made sure there aren't any left.
 

David

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
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Holland, MI
I honestly felt like crap while filming these, but the skiing looks about as good as your going to get on Icey variable, nonrhythmic eastern bumps. Run is National@Stowe. Here is some icey eastern bump skiing complete with skidding, rounding out turn, when possible, Hop turns down the spine of the bumps, Lateral hops to change line to better pastures, stem hops(aka Sequential hop turns), to change line up.

a couple thoughts, you are never going to get much angle in this type of skiing.

tactical choices are probably more important than than skills

Skills still matter namely rotational control and maintaining balance on the outside ski

As someone who use to hate the idea of non simultaneous edge changes and I am quite good at keep skiing matched on all angles, Stem Steps, and stem hops arent useless, but they should not be your only way of skiing. A well timed Stem hop can create flow and finesse where other wise their would be impact and no flow.

Ice bumps? Those are the kind of sodt bumps we dream of here in Michigan!
 

Nate Gardner

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Feb 17, 2017
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Your being lazy with those first half a dozen turns. And what was that forced little hop? Come one @Josh Matta I expect more from you!
Really like the skiing once you get to and past the camera. I guess that is where is flattens out a little. :)

See you soon Josh!
 
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