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Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

sparty

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Adding a fifth tire to the normal rotation mix also creates a serious additional headache because you need to either move or reprogram the TPMS sensor, assuming the tire is already mounted on a rim.

I did buy fifth tires for both summer and winter sets in the past year, but that was due to a size change for summer and wanting to have a proper winter spare for winter.
 

James

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But AWD today with sensors and such seem more picky on matching for wear .. or at least the dealers holding a harder stand on replacing at least 2 if one dies and mileage is up.
If you had time, TireRack can sand down a new tire to match the worn one.
 

Tony

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As promised when I had them installed in mid-December, I'm posting about my experience with Hankook Kinergy 4S2. So far they've been great. I already have 6,800 miles on them with five trips to Tahoe and one to Utah with snow experienced on every trip and many drives in CA rain. Even when passing slow vehicles on snow-covered roads they have never come close to losing traction. In snow covered parking lots at Kirkwood and Snowbird, where others were spinning their tires, I did not. I spent less than 5 minutes removing snow before entering from passenger side and moving to closer to entrance where I was staying after 6 days parked when over 20" of snow fell.
8546PilotDeepest.JPG
8548PilotBeforeShoveling1.JPG

Gas mileage is better than 3Peak BFGoodrich tires that I replaced. Going to UT and back I averaged just under 20 mpg which included slow trip getting to and around Lake Tahoe avoiding I80 closure and a lot of 80 mph crossing NV and UT. On way back, I got 21.5 and 21.7 mpg going 77-78 which seems to be the sweet spot for my SUV that hit 310K miles early on return crossing NV.

Wish I could have brought back some of the under $3 regular I got in Well, NV. The Costco near my Mom's house in San Jose is $4.39.
 

Near Nyquist

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Wish I could have brought back some of the under $3 regular I got in Well, NV. The Costco near my Mom's house in San Jose is $4.39.
Stop talking about California Gas
It’s very special blend with more taxes per gallon than any other state

$4.45 at Costco Roseville Monday

Getting ready for $4.99/gal by Labor Day
 
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raytseng

raytseng

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For the mpg hounds are you increasing and also monitoring your psi?
Although energy.gov says negligible savings from overinflating, I've found larger fuel economy benefits, I assume due to softer 3pmsf compound affecting fuel economy more than typical tires.

Especially if you're commuting before you hit snow, if you are at +5psi at 70F you'll be right at recommended psi at freezing cold mornings. So you get the eco benefits from the overinflation for the warm portion of the drive but don't losing winter performance once you are in snow.
I've calculated about 5% better economy running at +4 to 5psi. At $5 fuel this would be like paying/saving 25cents per gallon.
 

snwbrdr

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For the mpg hounds are you increasing and also monitoring your psi?
Although energy.gov says negligible savings from overinflating, I've found larger fuel economy benefits, I assume due to softer 3pmsf compound affecting fuel economy more than typical tires.

Especially if you're commuting before you hit snow, if you are at +5psi at 70F you'll be right at recommended psi at freezing cold mornings. So you get the eco benefits from the overinflation for the warm portion of the drive but don't losing winter performance once you are in snow.
I've calculated about 5% better economy running at +4 to 5psi. At $5 fuel this would be like paying/saving 25cents per gallon.
if you are more anal about mpg/range, then you want Low Rolling Resistance tires.

If you're overinflating the tires in the Coastal CA, by the time you hit the mountains, the temperature drop should bring the cold pressure in line with the automaker's recommendation for the blend of performance and comfort.
 
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raytseng

raytseng

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Yea but you get some eco tires and then you'll roll right into the ditch, then what's the point.
My point is overinflation with 3pmsf has a higher effect to minimize the mpg loss, as compared to overinflation on all seasons or eco tires, and as much a benefit as going out of your way hunting for cheap gas.
 

snwbrdr

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Yea but you get some eco tires and then you'll roll right into the ditch, then what's the point.
My point is overinflation with 3pmsf has a higher effect to minimize the mpg loss, as compared to overinflation on all seasons or eco tires, and as much a benefit as going out of your way hunting for cheap gas.
Good eco tires handle the snow, dry road, and wet roads just fine.
 

johnnyvw

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Stop talking about California Gas
It’s very special blend with more taxes per gallon than any other state

$4.45 at Costco Roseville Monday

Getting ready for $4.99/gal by Labor Day
Actually, Pennsylvania beats California when it comes to state gas taxes. So I'm at a loss as to why gas costs so much in Cali....
 

James

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New Nokian WRG5 Remedy coming out soon.
Suitable for ev’s too.
60k mi warranty, which little doubt it’ll make, but likely your snow performance will not be good by then. You need tread depth for snow.

 

snwbrdr

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New Nokian WRG5 Remedy coming out soon.
Suitable for ev’s too.
60k mi warranty, which little doubt it’ll make, but likely your snow performance will not be good by then. You need tread depth for snow.

They have been out since around last December, before Nokian officially announced them.
 

snwbrdr

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snwbrdr

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In the tire (excuse me, tyre) test video above some are not, or not yet, available in North America. Do the tire companies make different tires for different markets, or the same tires with different names? I'm sure some of both. I'll be ready for new tires in a couple of years, and I want all-weathers with both the snow & the ice symbols. Continental's only current all-weather North America offering is a cargo van tire.

Studs comment above...several years ago I guy I worked with lived on the coast in Norway above the Arctic Circle. He said that the standard practice there, and then, was to take the winter tires to the local shop for new studs with sharp edges and suitable length at the start of every winter.

Even Colorado ice, or the Wyoming ice I'm more familiar with, will be polished slick at intersections where about a thousand cars have spun their tires before I get there.
Michelin makes the CC2 different for North America vs Europe, as the North American ones have some rubber compound changes for maximized wear mileage.

There's no chance an all-weather tire will have the ice symbol. They are reserved for the tires that are designed for that market.
For example, Michelin CC2 won't have it, but I'm guessing the Xice-Snow will. Just like the Nokian WR's won't have it, but the Hakkapeliittas will.
 

johnnyvw

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Interesting...didn't know they had "special" fuel (although not surprised...).
There's more to it though....

According to the CEC’s own data, the state’s gasoline prices currently include about $1.40 per gallon, inclusive of all taxes and governmental fees. These taxes and fees have more than tripled since 1999, when the Commission began reporting the components of gas prices at the pump.

Aside from the state and federal excise taxes, state and local sales taxes, and fees for underground storage tanks and oil spill prevention, the CEC’s total includes costs associated with California’s Cap‐and‐Trade program and its Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LFCS).

California’s cap‐and‐trade program, jointly administered with the province of Quebec, auctions pollution allowances to oil refiners and other companies that produce carbon emissions. The refiners pass the costs of these allowances through to consumers. One quarter of the proceeds from cap‐and‐trade go to the California High‐Speed Rail project which is supposed to reduce emissions by replacing car and plane trips but has yet to do so due to construction delays.

LFCS encourages energy companies to use lower carbon fuels such as ethanol and biodiesel. Firms can obtain LFCS credits by using these low carbon fuels or by purchasing them. When refiners purchase LFCS credits they pass the costs on to consumers.
 

James

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Laughable for Europeans.
Gasoline was roughly €2/liter, ($8.30gal), when I was there in February. $85€ to fill up the small suv we had.
 

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