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Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

raytseng

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This thread is to discuss the new category of Passenger tires that are 3PMSF rated but not true winter tires.

Industry has settled on calling these true "All-Weather" tires (sometimes misused) or "4-season tires", and not to be confused with All Season tires.

Post your questions, reviews, and recommendations.

If you're looking to discuss AT tires head over here:
https://www.pugski.com/threads/hybrids-the-new-winter-tire.2889/

Notable and easily available tires of this category include:
Articles:
Please take articles and comparative testing reviews with a grain of salt if you are sweating details that a regular tire tested just as good as a 3PMSF tire. Testing is usually only done with fresh new tires and many non-3pmsf tires will perform adequately in snow/ice with full tread and tread designs to win initial customer satisfaction. After that first 2/32 wears off, the tire may be completely different.



TireRack: Are These Grand Touring All-Season Tires the Way of the Future?
TireRack: Testing Grand Touring All-Season Tires 2019

 
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raytseng

raytseng

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I am running the new hybrid Vredestein Quatrac Pro 3pmsf allweather tire this season bay area to tahoe (75% warm highways, 25% mountain conditions) and made first trip last weekend.

I found an snowy/icy road in the morning to test, and hard brake tested much better than my prev half-worn pirelli scorpion plus all-seasons with only a slight abs kick in. On drive back in sections of steady rain and standing water, they plowed right through smoothly, I couldn't notice the water at all at the wheel.

So good tire, but I don't have extensive tire history to compare to though.

Mostly available via tirerack, highly rated, and on ConsumerReports GrandTouring picks this year, even without the winter testing. They are also very confident in 60degree temp, but noticeably squirmier then my worn pirellis, until I bumped +5psi see above.

Note: In the first 500 miles of wear in; they did feel sluggish/dragging from whatever nubs or blocks that were poking out until those got smoothed and worn to my car's alignment.
 

John O

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I'm on my first winter with Crossclimate's on my Outback (I had been running X-Ice's previously) and so far they've done great. I only deal with snow when I go up in the mountains to go skiing on the weekend, not in my daily driving. I feel like they're both quieter and less squirmy compared to the X-Ice's. I'm sure the winter grip isn't as good, but so far it hasn't been an issue yet at all. I will admit that I haven't had them in very demanding conditions yet, but that might just indicate that I live in an area where this is a good tire for the climate.
 

François Pugh

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There is a bar for the three peak mountain symbol, but it's pretty low, 110% of a control tire in a standardized test. That's only 10% better than a tire that doesn't meet the standard. Just say'n.
Twice as good rates "Severe Service" designation.

https://info.kaltire.com/winter-tires-mountain-snowflake-symbol/

That being said, there's nothing stopping one tire from being way better than the control tire and only getting the same symbol as another that just meets the standard. I guess the control tire is a big secret. anyone have access to ASTM standard E1136 and is willing to give us a clue?
 

crgildart

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Post your questions, reviews, and recommendations.
  • Continental Extremecontact DWS 06 (this one not really 3PMSF, but is notable)

I'm on my 3rd set of Continental Control Contact rolling under our Forester. Not ideal for more than a foot of fresh but I have pushed through about 20" upon occasion. No complaints in slush or refrozen chunky junk. The eco compound does really well on cold surfaces, and also decent on warm dry pavement not wearing out too fast driving year round in a mostly summer climate. I get about 50K miles out of a set before I decide to replace them... when winter is comimg. Both sets I replaced were still totally good to go in non-winter conditions.
 

pete

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Got the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady for spouses Escape, they appear to be a much nicer upgrade than the Pirelli P7's but too, the Pirelli's had quite a few miles on em and with winter coming ...

The GY appear to have very good grip the few times I ran em on snow for a try and at the time had some stellar reviews for improved grip on winter conditions. However on side note, our other 2 vehicles have snows on them so in "bad" weather, she drives the Explorer with X-Ice on it. My opinion is on unpacked (non glazed or iced) roads, the GY does equally as well.
 

scott43

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I've had the Nokian WRG's and now have the Kumho Solus HA31 all weather tire on my second vehicle. I think when talking about these tires you have to add a disclaimer saying, while they are close to winter tires, they are far from summer tires. They are squirmy, loud and have high-frequency vibrations on the highway. Having said that, if you don't give a crap about summer or wet performance, they'll hold up just fine in all season use and work pretty well as winter tires.
 

cantunamunch

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I have an earlier gen of the Vredesteins - Quatrac 5 - and they have actually been really nice for wet weather for the past 3 months. We've had some soakers. Squirmy? Yes, for lack of a better word - but they actually track straighter than the 'accurate' Kumhos I replaced. The squirm is more of a feel you get as they respond to steering input.
 
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raytseng

raytseng

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There is a bar for the three peak mountain symbol, but it's pretty low, 110% of a control tire in a standardized test. That's only 10% better than a tire that doesn't meet the standard. Just say'n.
Twice as good rates "Severe Service" designation.

https://info.kaltire.com/winter-tires-mountain-snowflake-symbol/

That being said, there's nothing stopping one tire from being way better than the control tire and only getting the same symbol as another that just meets the standard. I guess the control tire is a big secret. anyone have access to ASTM standard E1136 and is willing to give us a clue?
Really good points.
My opinion, I would agree it's just a small hurdle. But the fact that they go for the rating at all is an indication of effort or desire to go for a allweather tire, not necessarily of total realworld performance.
Just like skis everything is a range not black and white. If you get a stockli ax, thats technically in their race ski line, but its the least racey ski they have.
Same among this category there are some more winter biased than others.

Sure, there will be some manufacturers that will spend the money just to get the stamp and sell tires, but hopefully point of this thread is word gets out which perform above and beyond the stamp and which ones just got the minimal stamp.
I mentioned you even have to take testing results with a grain of salt, because manufacturers could engineer just the top 2/32 to perform well to get good testing marks and good media reviews and initial cust satisfaction. 15k miles down the road the tire wears through the top complex tread design, has no snow performance and loud and out of round in the dry, but still is technically a 60k mile tire. I assume the crowd and long term reviews will expose these options out too.

Keep in mind, too if people need full winters, people should be on full winters. These tires are about maximizing compromise.
 
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Green08

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I have run Nokian WRG 3 as a winter tire option for 5 seasons in VT, 2 winters in CO, and have used them as a summer option when the tread was getting lower and I doubted they would have another quality winter in them.

They have been mounted on a Subaru Impreza.

Handling has been fine. Winter performance has been without problem. They havenever failed me in snowy or icy conditions. But, I can’t say I ever pushed them—even the best winter tires still mean you better drive more cautiously than dry summer roads.

Biggest downside has been noise vs the factory Yokohama.

They were spot on for shoulder season in VT. Have been good in CO to go between mountain and city, and then handle snow in city 1-2 times a month on unplowed roads. But, I have avoided getting into nasty tough weather situations in the first place.
 

cantunamunch

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For daily driving, I'm at door +5 cold tire at 50F ambient on the fronts, door on the rears (FWD 4door). MD doesn't have the smooth roads Cali does, but we're smoother than PA, VA and WV. Often by a lot.
 

scott43

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Yeah and to be clear, they are a compromise tire, tilted toward winter. So I'm not really criticizing the intent..but they are compromised.
 

wooglin

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I have my son on the Nokian WRGs on a Subaru Legacy. He lives in western NC where snows would be overkill, but drives up and over 5000 ft in elevation regularly to get to work and needed something better than regular all season tires. The Nokians have been great in this application.
 

cosmoliu

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I have a very limited selection of all weather tires for my 2019 X3 with kind of an oddball 245/50 R19 size. Tire Rack's tire finder algorithm spits out, in order, the Goodyear Eagle Exhilarate (relatively new), Conti DWS06 and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+. The Goodyear is too new for them to post on-snow results and, needing tires for this season, I bought a set of tried and true Contis. But I'm very interested to see the test results for the Goodyears. Anyone here have those tires?
 
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raytseng

raytseng

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For the Goodyears, I don't have them and never driven them, so this is just judging a tire by it's cover. Looking at the treadpattern for the Goodyear, it looks like the design only goes down 2/32nds . This was same problem with my Pirelli Scorpions. Initially it is good, but after those first blocks wear away , whatever snow performance it may have had drastically drops away.
 
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Bill Talbot

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PinnacleJim

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I am on my second set of BFG Comp-2 A/S tires. Got good snow ratings by tirerack and the only performance all seasons rated above average in snow by Consumer
Reports (the Conti DWS06 or Michein A/S 3+ were not). Seems to work well in most winter conditions, and good ride and handling in the warm weather.




.
 

Bad Bob

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There are alternative choices;

20200228_113203.jpg
 

jclee

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I have a very limited selection of all weather tires for my 2019 X3 with kind of an oddball 245/50 R19 size.
Downgrade to the base model's 18" wheels. My 330xi came with 18" wheels and I got a set of 17" wheels to mount snow tires on. The tires are cheaper and the ride is better.
 

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