• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Opinion: Why 100-108mm waist skis?

jmeb

Enjoys skiing.
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
4,490
Location
Colorado
I think @Chef23 's experience is a good one for a large number of US skiers that are either based in the West or travel there for a good percent of their ski days. The 99s were slightly overkill, but not horrible. But the last 4 days in CO have basically been the lowest tide, hardest snow we've had since November.

If he had come 2 weeks earlier, the 99s would've been too little ski.
 

Chef23

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Posts
402
I think @Chef23 's experience is a good one for a large number of US skiers that are either based in the West or travel there for a good percent of their ski days. The 99s were slightly overkill, but not horrible. But the last 4 days in CO have basically been the lowest tide, hardest snow we've had since November.

If he had come 2 weeks earlier, the 99s would've been too little ski.

My friends were there two weeks earlier and skied on Enforcer 100s and had a blast. They wouldn't have minded wider but still felt good on what they had. I had a blast on my 99s but 85-90 might have been better.
 

blikkem

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Posts
67
Location
NYC
So if anyone has a different ski preference, they're not very good skiers.... ok. FWIW, while the Enforcer series skis are great for many, I will say straight away that I personally prefer the 20-21 Bonafide by an order of magnitude, but whatever, I only drive an Alltrack wagon, so there you go. :)

I think the Alltrack wagons are awesome. I sat in one in at an auto show and it fit like a glove. Manual transmission and all wheel drive, all day!
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
I think the Alltrack wagons are awesome. I sat in one in at an auto show and it fit like a glove. Manual transmission and all wheel drive, all day!
I am pretty happy with ours. 63K miles on it now.
 

rpoyntz_88

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Posts
3
Location
Vancouver
I stumbled across this old thread when searching for ski options in a wide all mountain platform. Definitely got a kick out of reading the replies - but I didn't get my answer! I still think for west coast skiing a 100 to 110 mm waisted AM platform that can engage on hard snow, has energy in the ski construction, and can still stay composed in deeper conditions is (with the addition of a pow ski) all you need for resort. It looks like there are some interesting options out there like the Armada Declivity 102 ti and the ON3P Woodsman 108 but I have not been able to test either. I think something like the Mantra 102 is a bit too stiff/flat to be soft snow capable. Anyone else looking for this same goldilocks combo? Currently skiing the Dynastar MFree 108 in a 192 cm as my daily driver but with a low tide season shaping up at Whistler the hard snow performance is a bit vague and uninspiring! The tip shaper and rocker profile combo on that ski lets me down some times when trying to get solid edge engagement early in the turn.
 

GregK

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
4,018
Location
Ontario, Canada
I stumbled across this old thread when searching for ski options in a wide all mountain platform. Definitely got a kick out of reading the replies - but I didn't get my answer! I still think for west coast skiing a 100 to 110 mm waisted AM platform that can engage on hard snow, has energy in the ski construction, and can still stay composed in deeper conditions is (with the addition of a pow ski) all you need for resort. It looks like there are some interesting options out there like the Armada Declivity 102 ti and the ON3P Woodsman 108 but I have not been able to test either. I think something like the Mantra 102 is a bit too stiff/flat to be soft snow capable. Anyone else looking for this same goldilocks combo? Currently skiing the Dynastar MFree 108 in a 192 cm as my daily driver but with a low tide season shaping up at Whistler the hard snow performance is a bit vague and uninspiring! The tip shaper and rocker profile combo on that ski lets me down some times when trying to get solid edge engagement early in the turn.
191cm Sender Free 110 mounted -2cm to -3cm back from Rec is your ski! Playful and fun while flat but edge grip in the Katana 108 range when turned over. More stable than the MFree 108 too and a much better carver when things are firm.
 

silverback

Talking a lot about less and less
Skier
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Posts
1,411
Location
Wasatch
I’ve tried to like a bunch of 100-108 skis and find I don’t like the tip taper that comes with most skis I this class. I went for a long time with nothing between carvy 83 and wide powder skis. I found what Phil calls a wide-narrow 98 that I use a lot and like.

A lot depends on how and where you want to ski it.
 

David Chaus

Beyond Help
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
5,529
Location
Stanwood, WA
I have an ON3P Woodsman 102 and it is excellent in soft snow, but I found it was stressing my knee to tip on groomers. It came with a 1/1 tune; I changed it to 2 degree side and it skis way better on groomed snow. It can be a decent all mountain ski. Wider than that, not so much for someone of my size. That said, I bought a 94 and like it much better for an all mountain softer snow ski. I end up using a 77 these days more than anything else.
 

DanoT

RVer-Skier
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,788
Location
Sun Peaks B.C. in winter, Victoria B.C. in summer
Currently skiing the Dynastar MFree 108 in a 192 cm as my daily driver but with a low tide season shaping up at Whistler the hard snow performance is a bit vague and uninspiring!
108mm wide and 192cm long; That's an awfully big and especially wide ski for a daily driver even for wet heavy coastal Whistler snow. I have gone from a 98mm wide Blizzard Bonifide to a Head Kore 93 for my daily driver, but I mostly ski dry B.C. Interior snow. I have also been in shin deep pow with the Head Kore 93 and it was fine. It's a bit more work for skiing the knee deep stuff so I have a 106mm wide ski for the deep stuff. I like to get in the powder, not on top of the pow.
 

martyg

Making fresh tracks
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Posts
2,216
Because most skiers only want to own one set of skis. And because most skiers are willing to trade off some hardpack performance for soft snow/3D
performance.

“…soft snow 3D compensation.”
 

BMC

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Posts
778
I had a Salomon QLab at 103mm underfoot, and currently have a Nordica Enforcer 104 in the quiver.

You definitely wouldn’t choose either ski if most of your day was ice, or very firm groomers, or even predominantly groomers. But as a “wide ski” with an intended use for moderately good fresh snowfalls and the groomers and tracked up conditions which follow, both are great.

Yes, you’d want something wider for very deep snowfalls, but those ones are rare.

I find that in those conditions both skis carve great (the QLab better and more precise).

I originally got the QLab as a OSQ travel ski for Japan, and a wide ski for fresh snowfall in Oz. I ultimately got another wider ski for the deeper powder days in Japan, and the use case for the QLab (or Enforcer 104) as a two ski quiver for Japan dropped away. It was a great OSQ for there, but as a match to a wider ski in a 2SQ, something narrower was better.

As a wider ski though in a quiver for places like Australia or Sun Peaks or maybe NZ or perhaps even Colorado I think that width of skis is pretty good.
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
This was one of those threads that was better left dead...

The simple answer is that skiers come in different shapes and sizes (weight), so skis comes in different shapes and sizes. Each skier has their own preferred match(es). We are all free to safely ignore the skis that aren't for us. :)
 

salvatore

Out on the slopes
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Mar 26, 2022
Posts
549
Location
East Coast
"I say we take off and nuke the site thread from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
 

rpoyntz_88

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Posts
3
Location
Vancouver
Its easy to get caught up in the numbers and worry about a couple mm here or there. I like the support and stability of a wider ski underfoot. I also like the way that a deep rocker line and tapered tip makes skiing 'variable' conditions so much easier. The M free is a fantastic bump ski and does great on the steeps even when its pretty firm. I feel like there is the goldilocks everyday ski out there that I can do all the above PLUS carve instinctually on firmer trails. Maybe I need to demo the new Mantra and start from there? Maybe the Sender Free 110 would be the end of sequence for that experiment. I think they have them both at the canski demo tent. Funny enough I tried a Rustler 11 in a 188 and found it a lot more precise feeling on edge then the M Free despite the width. It was soft that day but I think the fact it has less tip taper and more gradual rocker line than the M Free was the reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BMC

rpoyntz_88

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Posts
3
Location
Vancouver
I have an ON3P Woodsman 102 and it is excellent in soft snow, but I found it was stressing my knee to tip on groomers. It came with a 1/1 tune; I changed it to 2 degree side and it skis way better on groomed snow. It can be a decent all mountain ski. Wider than that, not so much for someone of my size. That said, I bought a 94 and like it much better for an all mountain softer snow ski. I end up using a 77 these days more than anything else.
How do you find the Woodsman carves? I think they toned down the rocker and taper in the latest version to make it a bit more reactive/easier to get that early turn engagement that you need to build pressure through a turn.
 

Tom K.

Skier Ordinaire
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Posts
8,399
I still think for west coast skiing a 100 to 110 mm waisted AM platform that can engage on hard snow, has energy in the ski construction, and can still stay composed in deeper conditions is (with the addition of a pow ski) all you need for resort.

I don't necessarily agree with your position, but if that's the way you want to roll, I'd nominate as contenders the Enforcer 100, Mindbender 99ti (current version) and Mindbender 108ti.
 

ScottB

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
2,165
Location
Gloucester, MA
Check out Ski Essentials multiple ski round up reviews. It will give you insight for which ski is closest to your Goldilocks ski. They have them for lots of widths
 

Sponsor

Staff online

  • Andy Mink
    Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
Top