Open Parallel/ Dynamic Parallel

[Kneale Brownson]

Two posts have been deleted from this thread because

• One was a shot at instructors
• One was a quote of the shot.

We pride ourselves on the intelligent conversation and will continue to do so. Taking shots does not set the tone which will encourage intelligent discussion

Thank you!!

 

[Skistaff]

I think it was a little too early to start with the posts deleting business , but .... you are the boss. Anyways I think sometimes some little shots can contribute to the intelligent conversation ( in their propre way) and can make the conversation attract more and more participants so eventualy insted of having 48 members and 38 guests hanging around you will have 2000 , correct me if I am wrong, but this is what you prefer to have , dont't you.

 

[SBrown]

Two posts have been deleted from this thread because

• One was a shot at instructors
• One was a quote of the shot.

We pride ourselves on the intelligent conversation and will continue to do so. Taking shots does not set the tone which will encourage intelligent discussion

These shots only.

 

[Philpug]

These shots only.

View attachment 4139

Thats either a before or after...shot. Hopefully after.

 

[McEl]

Can we get some video to go along with this?

Basic/Dynamic parallel

Vimeo and YouTube have several from PSIA - Rocky Mountain:

labeled Short radius basic parallel in Bumps.

labeled Dynamic Parallel Turns

labeled Basic Parallel Turns


labeled PSIA-RM Exam Standards , including:


labeled PSIA-RM Basic Parallel. Introductory quote:

“Linked rounded turns at an intermediate speed on mild blue terrain. Skis maintain consistent parallel relationship throughout and are actively steered to control speed.’


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khb24xygfQo labeled PSIA-RM Dynamic Medium Radius.

Introductory quote:

“Linked high performance medium radius turns on groomed blue terrain at moderate to high speed. Edges are actively engaged from initiation through shaping to produce a predominantly carved turn.”

**************


My observations of the difference can be summarized as, Dynamic is basically, Basic plus. The plus is significantly more speed, often but not necessarily due to steeper terrain. With more speed and greater-than-basic edging comes the noticeable visual effect of showing significantly more of the bottom of the ski, accompanied by the body inclining significantly more into the turn, often accompanied by significantly more angulation to keep the body balanced over the outside ski. Extension and flexion of the legs are significantly greater.


There are significantly more forces in a dynamic turn than in a slower basic turn, and the body positions show all that in its attempt to resist those forces and avoid falling out of balance. All this may be difficult to describe in words, but “you know it when you see it”. See the obvious differences in the video clips above. So, all PUG Wordsmiths can write what they see the differences to be. Given the likely impossibility of describing in words what constitutes dynamic, it may be more useful to use the descriptor significant as Kneale did in his post. The quickly- observable differences between the two that Josh is asking to define are the evident significant differences.


Of course, significant is in the eye of the beholder, which can lead to endless subjective debate on the extent to which the intensity must increase for movement to become “dynamic”.
McEl

 

[Josh Matta]

I think in both of your video the bump and the one on groomer the "basic" parrallel had COM moving well inside the inside ski. If you were to freeze the movement the skier would fall over IE the turning forces are actually holding up the skier and not just their legs. Those video contradict alot of choice words used by several people. I am not saying they are right or wrong. I am saying that maybe we should stop using the term open vs dynamic....although I like how RM calls it basic.

My point is skiing is an gray area if you are going to use terms there should be an easy way to identify it, currently I feel like this should be the differentiation.

Dynamic - is skiing that if you were to freeze the movement mid turn the skier would tumble over, turning force + legs are holding up the skier

Open - is skiing that if you were to freeze the movement mid turn the skier WOULD NOT tumble over. Legs alone are holding the skier up.

The thing is both of those Basic turn videos by the definition above would be Dynamic.

 

[dustyfog]

Two posts have been deleted from this thread because

• One was a shot at instructors
• One was a quote of the shot.

We pride ourselves on the intelligent conversation and will continue to do so. Taking shots does not set the tone which will encourage intelligent discussion

Come on, I missed this, how is that possible (well skiing the L-East Coat) ! I can imagine the stalwart who created this conundrum is ........ !!

Hilarious

 

[SBrown]

Dynamic - is skiing that if you were to freeze the movement mid turn the skier would tumble over, turning force + legs are holding up the skier

Open - is skiing that if you were to freeze the movement mid turn the skier WOULD NOT tumble over. Legs alone are holding the skier up.

I clearly should not be part of this thread, as I only can post photos of shot glasses, but that makes a shit ton of sense to me.

 

[Tricia]

^^^ I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Monique]

I buy it. Josh: Mic drop?

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Dynamic - is skiing that if you were to freeze the movement mid turn the skier would tumble over, turning force + legs are holding up the skier

Open - is skiing that if you were to freeze the movement mid turn the skier WOULD NOT tumble over. Legs alone are holding the skier up.

The thing is both of those Basic turn videos by the definition above would be Dynamic.

Isn't that what I said? Once the COM is inside the inside ski you need the turning forces or you will fall down.

 

[Josh Matta]

it is what you said. It what alot of people have said but so far every video example of basic/open has shown what is IMO low end dynamic.

 

[Josh Matta]

Come on, I missed this, how is that possible (well skiing the L-East Coat) ! I can imagine the stalwart who created this conundrum is ........ !!

Hilarious

this is why the post should have been left up. It actually was not me making fun of anyone.

 

[mdf]

it is what you said. It what alot of people have said but so far every video example of basic/open has shown what is IMO low end dynamic.

Just watched the RM Basic video above, and I have to agree with you -- lots of dynamic in that one. Just guessing, maybe that is why RM says "basic" instead of "open." So is it a terminology mismatch, or a demo mismatch?

 

[Kneale Brownson]

At what point in the turn are you seeing the toppling possibilities? I mean, before the fall line or in/beyond the fall line?

 

[Tricia]

The post that was deleted wasn't Josh's. No one said it was.
Josh, however, brought up this really good discussion.

Two pictures in my progression of skiing
One a few years ago - What I perceive as open parallel

This one from a year ago which I perceive to be closer to Dynamic Parallel

How close am I at my perception?
Based on some of the earlier discussion in this thread, the first photo is not open parallel because the skis are bent.

 

[dustyfog]

this is why the post should have been left up. It actually was not me making fun of anyone.

JM: did not think a pro instructor i.e. you was the source of said 'violation of site etiquette' by any means, am pretty sure I can wager a pretty sum , source of such ilk, but not you by any stretch.

 

[Josh Matta]

TC nice improvement on the angles!

I would consider both of those dynamic, just one is more dynamic.

 

[Skistaff]

JM: did not think a pro instructor i.e. you was the source of said 'violation of site etiquette' by any means, am pretty sure I can wager a pretty sum , source of such ilk, but not you by any stretch.

And how much is the pretty sum that you can wager ?..

 

[Monique]

Give it a rest, please. (Tricia feel free to delete this post)