I think there are two subjects in this thread now. The first is the subject of the thread, on the use of hip dump to improve skiing. The second is whether or not a turn starts from hip or feet. I will address the former first.
I think my poor vocabulary has ignited some heartfelt feelings, that hip dumps are for-sure not the way to go. I want to be clear, I agree, as it pertains to what the accepted meaning of what a hip dump is. I tried to describe a different type of hip dump because I couldn't come up with another term. Well, I have been inspired.
What I have been trying to describe might be called, "a$$ume the position". Or, in keeping with PSIA convention "S-ume the position". That position can be angulated,
Ingrid Backstrom in Steep,,Sony Pictures
Here, Backstrom is finishing a turn. By S-uming the position, I mean assume that position way at the top of the turn. Though that's not what Caston did here, in Return of the Turn Episode 2, let's assume he rapidly entered this position,
done at the very top of the turn, baring bottoms to those (...uhh, ok, I mean of his skis) to those above him, above being viewer's left of him in photo.
Here, Ligety bares his bottom, in the aforementioned video he posted on his Facebook page, by assuming the position,
Ligety holds this position through a park and ride turn. What is the distinguishing difference between what I am calling S-ume the position and "park and ride"? S-ume the position is a park and ride turn that starts way, way high in the turn. If it were an exam tsk, there would be an examiner uphill, looking for exposure of the bottoms, the more exposure the better. Angulation would not be a metric and variant from the Japanese video,,with inclination, would be acceptable,
I stand by my view that a skier can derive the benefits I listed in the OP. I reiterate, as an instructor,,I would not teach it. And, certainly a beginner or inexperienced skier shouldn't be playing with it.
Now, as to the second matter, initiating turn with hip or feet, I think that discussion needs clarity of bodily parts: Lower spine (flexible), pelvis, hip (the joint), the leg, ankle, and feet. And, again,,I am at fault for not being clear on these terms from the start.
I do not think hip first. I'll try to pay attention more closely next time I ski, but I'm pretty sure the first thing I think about is moving my pelvis, with movement of my lower back. It can be sideways, or, with a reverse-pelvic tilt, it can be backwards. The upper body above the lower spine is still, unless counter. Again, that word counter might be wrong because at the very top of turn, I am (countering?) to the inside ski and downhill, not to the outside ski. After pelvis, I am thinking hips, to achieve whatever flex and extension I need, then, as skis engage, ankles and feet. Ankles act reactively. Feet are sensors.
I do not mean I move my upper body. I move my pelvis with my lower spine. Upper body is quite still.
I do not have these symptoms unless I want them.
Done.
BTW, I consider myself a slow skier. I am not trying to be a racer. Everything I do, I do for control of speed, so, though I don't often park and ride, I do engage edges as high in the turn as I can
I think my poor vocabulary has ignited some heartfelt feelings, that hip dumps are for-sure not the way to go. I want to be clear, I agree, as it pertains to what the accepted meaning of what a hip dump is. I tried to describe a different type of hip dump because I couldn't come up with another term. Well, I have been inspired.
aka "a$$-skiing".
What I have been trying to describe might be called, "a$$ume the position". Or, in keeping with PSIA convention "S-ume the position". That position can be angulated,
Ingrid Backstrom in Steep,,Sony Pictures
Here, Backstrom is finishing a turn. By S-uming the position, I mean assume that position way at the top of the turn. Though that's not what Caston did here, in Return of the Turn Episode 2, let's assume he rapidly entered this position,
done at the very top of the turn, baring bottoms to those (...uhh, ok, I mean of his skis) to those above him, above being viewer's left of him in photo.
Here, Ligety bares his bottom, in the aforementioned video he posted on his Facebook page, by assuming the position,
Ligety holds this position through a park and ride turn. What is the distinguishing difference between what I am calling S-ume the position and "park and ride"? S-ume the position is a park and ride turn that starts way, way high in the turn. If it were an exam tsk, there would be an examiner uphill, looking for exposure of the bottoms, the more exposure the better. Angulation would not be a metric and variant from the Japanese video,,with inclination, would be acceptable,
I stand by my view that a skier can derive the benefits I listed in the OP. I reiterate, as an instructor,,I would not teach it. And, certainly a beginner or inexperienced skier shouldn't be playing with it.
Now, as to the second matter, initiating turn with hip or feet, I think that discussion needs clarity of bodily parts: Lower spine (flexible), pelvis, hip (the joint), the leg, ankle, and feet. And, again,,I am at fault for not being clear on these terms from the start.
If you can let tgo of the 'yeah, but you have to start with the hip' , you'll make huge strides in your skiing
Modern technique, however, relies on tipping the ski to engage the sidecut and as the tipping continues, bending the ski to decrease the turning radius of the turn.These movements begin in the ankles and continue by tipping the lower leg.
I do not think hip first. I'll try to pay attention more closely next time I ski, but I'm pretty sure the first thing I think about is moving my pelvis, with movement of my lower back. It can be sideways, or, with a reverse-pelvic tilt, it can be backwards. The upper body above the lower spine is still, unless counter. Again, that word counter might be wrong because at the very top of turn, I am (countering?) to the inside ski and downhill, not to the outside ski. After pelvis, I am thinking hips, to achieve whatever flex and extension I need, then, as skis engage, ankles and feet. Ankles act reactively. Feet are sensors.
The problem with moving the upper body (and yes, the hip is part of the upper body) is that the movement is most likely to wind up with inclination, not angulation
I do not mean I move my upper body. I move my pelvis with my lower spine. Upper body is quite still.
weight on the inside ski rather than the outside ski, balance aft on the ski, with the result that you push the ski away from you to attempt to achieve edge angle, and the maximum pressure arises, as a result, late in the finish of the turn rather than near the apex
I do not have these symptoms unless I want them.
wipe the hip dump from your mind
Done.
BTW, I consider myself a slow skier. I am not trying to be a racer. Everything I do, I do for control of speed, so, though I don't often park and ride, I do engage edges as high in the turn as I can