Of race boots, size and pain

[Nobody]

And so, I thought I would have never gone "back" to those times...times of pains and tightly fit boots.
Sunday I "had to" purchase a new race boot. The choice fell on the Dalbello DRS WC (witdh @93mm)
Ha because after years of skiing "comfortably" in boots that were of the exact street shoes size (last two pair of ski boots I use are both Tecnica, the in-resort daily drive is a [email protected].110 and the freeride one a ZeroG Guide Pro, both 27,5) I have come to need a more precise boot to drive the skis, if I want to pass the Eurotest, before getting too old.
Interstingly enough I started off at the shop with a 27,0 sized one, when I tried it this summer hte fit was snug enough without causing any particular pain nor pressure point. On Sunday though, already the liner alone felt a bit too wide...too much room around the heel, even after the liners and the feet were inserted in the boots, so I went down...another half size to a 26,5 boot.
And after one hour of dry testing it pulled the trigger for it. F.I. is "only" 110, but
a) I've had enough of the "I got it stiffer than yours" attitude highly favoured here and decided that 110 was good (stiff) enough. b) I'm old enough and 110 should do the job anyway.
Having had no possibility to ski in it,yet, it's the second day that I wear it at home in the evening.
After half an hour the pain is...noticeable, toes are compressed (too much for my liking) and I feel some pressure point on the side of my left foot (interestingly enough, the narrower of the two) and on the external portion of the calf of the right one (a pain point that made me ditch the Dalbello Scorpion 130 I had purchased some years ago in favour of the Tecnica 9.8).
After one hour I have to take them off, feet are numb and don't regain their natural shape for some minutes after extracting them from the boots.
As agreed with the boot fitter, the boot-fitting process has just barely begun after all, I will need to go see them after actually having skied in the boots for at least a couple of times. But the two evenings of "on the sofa skiing" sessions so far have made me think that I will need a bit more room for the toes, a punch on the external side of the left boot , a punch on the external calf of the right one and a custom footbed. To begin with. Actual, on-the-snow-skiing will tell more.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Beware of skiing two days in very tight boots with identifiable painful pressure points ... just because the bootfitter tells you to before he will grind/punch them. Your foot can get inflamed at those hot spots. Then you'll need to wait for the inflammation to disappear before he can do the adjustments, and that could take weeks. I'm speaking from experience here.

 

[graham418]

Then you'll need to wait for the inflammation to disappear before he can do the adjustments, and that could take weeks. I'm speaking from experience here.

OR LONGER. ( I am speaking from experience here)

 

[LiquidFeet]

Well, I didn't tell my whole story either. Several years ago I bought new boots in October from a very reputable bootfitter (don't trust reputations!), skied three days in pain as per instructions, then got the punches, continued skiing, pain grew, went back to bootfitter, got more punches, continued skiing, pain grew.

Went to new bootfitter, got more punches.... pain continued, went to new bootfitter again but the plastic was at this point so thin couldn't get more punches. Pain from inflammation did not go away the rest of the season. I took ibuprofen around the clock. Left work in middle of day with too much pain to teach several times. Budget did not allow a second pair of boots at that time.

At end of summer had to have two inflamed ingrown toenails surgically removed (the digital nerve block is no fun) before the new season started so I could get new boots. So. Two new pair of expensive boots in two seasons. One season nursing continual pain. Did I mention the digital nerve block?

I've learned my lesson. Seems I'm not alone. Passing it on....

 

[François Pugh]

It is possible to have tight fitting boots that do not cause pain. Don't over-look surgery on the liners, even custom foam liners.

 

[Tom K.]

I try to do five "on the sofa" sessions with new boots (currently on #3 as I type).

But darn, those boots sound awfully tight. As mentioned above, don't beat your feet up too badly before seeking fitting attention, because feet heel slowly, and doubly so after the age of 50.

I'm 59 and broke a toe this summer in a manner similar to when I was 32 or 33. Much to my surprise -- but NOT my doctor's! -- tit ook almost twice as long to heal.

 

[BGreen]

Stand in the shells without the liners. If you are touching plastic anywhere, they are too tight and need to be punched or ground. The Dalbello race liners are very thin, so I would mess with the shells before the liners. Punching and grinding should only be done by someone familiar with the boots. The plastic cracks very easily and it’s easy to grind through the boot since the plastic is very soft. 110 flex would be the super soft (SS), right? That's still plenty of boot for most people. It pairs well with a world cup Booster strap.

 

[Near Nyquist]

These are plug boots
They need to be ground before usage
If you foot measures AA in width I might make an exception
Otherwise I am gonna ink your foot up n grind away

And for entertainment value your gonna get plates on the soles of the boots too

 

[Nobody]

Ookay, here I am ...apologies for the silence over these past days but I had a computer problem and don't feel that comfortable writing posto on a tablet of a smartphone.
First off, thank you to all for the replies. Please keep them coming.
Then, yes, the boot F.I. is SS (on Dalbello's site is officially equalled to 110 but I have my doubts) plenty stiffness enough! My everyday boots (see first post above ) feels like slippers both in width, obviously, and stiffness in comparison.
Now, as for the boots, after a couple of on the sofa sessions, I stopped to avoid falling in the situations described by you guys...don't want to lose my season due to foot pain.
Then last week I took them out for a real day on snow. First half an hour was absolute pain, to the point that I skied with all buckles open. Then once the pain receded, proceeded to close the first (the two top ones) two and front another half an hour of pain, then once pain receded again, buckled the lowest two and fronted another painful half an hour or so...By 13.00 I was spent and called it a day. A positive fact is that once the boots buckles were opened the pain was receding. Once the boots were taken off...pain was gone. Tomorrow I will put them on again (some 10 days after the first "session"), then I'll go and visit the Boot-fitter shop, I already have a couple of modification requests in my list, amongst the obvious need to widen the boot a bit, I feel "overcanted", need to check the canting again, though.
Oh, BTW I already have installed the "entertainment value"...

 

[Wilhelmson]

Would it be better, if possible, to ski the boots on a warm day, or at least avoid a very cold day?

 

[Philpug]

Race boots have a purpose...maximum efficiency. There is a cost, and that is warmth and usually comfort. Yes, work can be done to the boot to minimize discomfort and it comes down what balance the skier is willing to endure. It is like a sports car and saying "the ride is harsh...and it is noisy", well, again there is a cost for that.

 

[James]

What's up with fitters not wanting to do punches or grinds and have you just ski? This practice now seems rampant, whereas before it rarely would have happened with any performance fit.

 

[Philpug]

What's up with fitters not wanting to do punches or grinds and have you just ski? This practice now seems rampant, whereas before it rarely would have happened with any performance fit.

One the boot shapes have gotten better...more and more are actually shaped like feet. B. I will give the customer a chance to ski it out..if they choose. I will ask "Can you ski it this way and do you want to try?" If the say yes, I will say if it doesn't get better, come right back and see me, don't try to be a hero or if they say no, I will address what they feel is needed. Each skier is addressed on a case by case basis.

 

[KevinF]

What's up with fitters not wanting to do punches or grinds and have you just ski? This practice now seems rampant, whereas before it rarely would have happened with any performance fit.

I worked with a boot fitter who didn't want to do canting / balancing work until I had skied in them two or three day and then come back. He was adamant that he wouldn't do canting work until after that.

So I left, put the boots on a shelf for a week or two, came back, told him what I had "felt", and then he canted them to what I need.

 

[James]

One the boot shapes have gotten better...more and more are actually shaped like feet. B. I will give the customer a chance to ski it out..if they choose. I will ask "Can you ski it this way and do you want to try?" If the say yes, I will say if it doesn't get better, come right back and see me, don't try to be a hero or if they say no, I will address what they feel is needed. Each skier is addressed on a case by case basis.

That makes sense. Unfortunately not everyone is so conscientious. They're not even adjusting the cuff!

I worked with a boot fitter who didn't want to do canting / balancing work until I had skied in them two or three day and then come back. He was adamant that he wouldn't do canting work until after that.

So I left, put the boots on a shelf for a week or two, came back, told him what I had "felt", and then he canted them to what I need.

Fwiw, unless egregious, that makes sense to wait. He canted to what you felt or checked it too? What did you feel?

 

[LiquidFeet]

....First half an hour was absolute pain, to the point that I skied with all buckles open. Then once the pain receded, proceeded to close the first (the two top ones) two and front another half an hour of pain, then once pain receded again, buckled the lowest two and fronted another painful half an hour or so...By 13.00 I was spent and called it a day. A positive fact is that once the boots buckles were opened the pain was receding. Once the boots were taken off...pain was gone....

The cold may have mitigated the pain. Icing a painful area shuts down pain, doesn't it?
Maybe the pain from the tight fit would have lasted all day if the feet stayed warm.

@Nobody, any chance this could be what happened?

 

[KevinF]

That makes sense. Unfortunately not everyone is so conscientious. They're not even adjusting the cuff!


Fwiw, unless egregious, that makes sense to wait. He canted to what you felt or checked it too? What did you feel?

What did I feel? I feel that I have long known that I naturally do not stand flat in ski boots and I know I can’t ski effectively without some corrections.

Why should I waste ski days to re-determine what I already know?

His shop is slope side so after he determined that I don’t stand flat, he made some changes, I skied... it took a round or two to get it “right”.

 

[Nobody]

Would it be better, if possible, to ski the boots on a warm day, or at least avoid a very cold day?

The cold may have mitigated the pain. Icing a painful area shuts down pain, doesn't it?
Maybe the pain from the tight fit would have lasted all day if the feet stayed warm.

@Nobody, any chance this could be what happened?

Hi again
Well, the days I skied with those boots weren't cold at all, temps were above 0° C all the time (between 3 and 8 ° C)
Then, the next week end I took them off again their box (it was Sat 01.05) for a full ride, still unmodified. It was almost impossible to effectively drive the skis, couldn't have the tip to correctly engage at turn initiation, nor the internal edge of external/downhill ski to "grip" the snow. This, i fear, is due to the overcanting, while the driving problem might have to do to feet becoming too numb due to lack of room for blood circulation.
I skied a full day in them and ended up taking a very weird fall (turning right in between to moderate bumps on a relatively flat run at slow speed, I ended up with the external - left - ski crossed under the internal - right- one) and a very bruised right side of my right leg (from half tight to half leg, through the knee as well). To date some of the bruise is still noticeable (the skis, I had previously skied them for a couple of seasons without problems)
Bootfitter will get my boots and the mod wish list next Saturday (couldn't bring them earlier, nor post here, as I was on a ski trip in Slovenija until yesterday - with last 98mm boots of course, ot htese ones I am talknig about here)). Will not ski the tight boots again until modifications will have been done.

 

[MingDao]

Hi. Sorry to revive this old thread, but I would like to hear your experience after using these boots for what maybe couple of seasons now?
Local shop is going out of business and has a pair in size 275, which is the max size that Dalbello is making them. I can barely squeeze myself into them, but it is very tight.
I have a very narrow and slim foot but I normally ski in 285 (currently Salomon S Max) and I wear size 11 sneakers (I like Hoka, which run small).
Since these are top of the line Dalbello WC boots, I wonder whether it is at all streachable by a full size up (+10mm)?

 

[Nobody]

Hi. Sorry to revive this old thread, but I would like to hear your experience after using these boots for what maybe couple of seasons now?
Local shop is going out of business and has a pair in size 275, which is the max size that Dalbello is making them. I can barely squeeze myself into them, but it is very tight.
I have a very narrow and slim foot but I normally ski in 285 (currently Salomon S Max) and I wear size 11 sneakers (I like Hoka, which run small).
Since these are top of the line Dalbello WC boots, I wonder whether it is at all streachable by a full size up (+10mm)?

Well, quite frankly I had forgotten about this thread and I must thank you for bringing it back from oblivion for I think I owe all an update or two... I always felt very comfortable in Tecnica boots, starting back in 1991-1992 with TNTs (Racing model) and then moving on XT17s and then on to R9.8/110, but after some season (3 I think) with 50/60+ days I felt it was time to move on and decided to give Dalbellos a second chance (more later about this on my quest for "precision") Now, coming to the DRSs...
After quite some bootfitting (toe and sixth toe widening on both boots, some grinding in the lower external right leg /calf upper right external ankle, which required some convincing and measurement - including me going to the bootfitter shop right after skiing and showing the aforementioned portion(s) swollen- plus custom SIDAS footbed made last summer) I am happy to relatethat any painpoint has gone. Boot is really performing, I must now adapt to it and learn how to exploit it to its fullest potential in order to effectively drive the R25 FIS skis that I decided to couple with it. Even if I feel that I still can't be effective at driving these skis and can't but correctly them on edge in a GS course (which simply means I will need a lot mor mileage on them both)
I liked it so much that I decided, back in may, to purchase a second hand Dalbello DRS F.I. 110 (last width 98mm) form a friend who wasn't using them, to use it as an everyday boot, replacing the Tecnica R 9.8 F.I. 110 that I have normally used until now.
To my sorrow, I discovered in the course of the season, that this last boot is causing my stance to be slightly uprighter than with the Tecnicas, and even if nominally both have a F.I. of 110, the Dalbellos are noticeably stiffer. I am not so sure, but coaches started to notice that I was getting in the backseat in some situation (like during short turns) when using the Dalbello DRS as compared ot the Tecnica R9.8, probably I couldn't "bend" the boot forward and as result was getting in the backseat instead... I noticed that the DRS liner comes with half lace and a "beefed up" tongue (a plastic renforcement is added as a top layer), and I believe that is the combination of this liner and the shell (newer and less worked out on top of a different build) itself that makes the boot "stiffer" than the Tecnica.
I then proceed to ski (free-ski, that is, not GS training) with a "franken-boot" for some time during the season (particularly during my L3/U3 training) which was made of the Tecnica shells, the DRS liners and the SIDAS footbeds.
This because I had noticed, at the end of season 2018-2019 that the Tecnica were now becoming too soft and slack (when driving a turn, specifically high speed long turns, I could feel the foot move inside the shell/boot until "contact" was made, at which point I could drive the ski, but this was causing less precise turns and somehow a delay in almost all phases of a turn)
Precision somewhat improved overall but still felt the shell lacking support in the high speed long turns, where it still had an habit to give suddenly way (forward) when I needed its support most (it happened during the exam as well, which is partially the cause for the bad marks I got on the exercise - for the record the exercise was one legged -external- long turns) .
I will now reset all boots to their base configuration (maybe buy another SIDAS custom footbed for the DRS) and put more mileage on the DRSs and W.C.s to learn and understand how to be effective on them (I'm also thinking of putting boosters on both, but I need to discuss this with coaches and bootfitter)
BTW, Did I mention that both Dalbello's are one full size smaller than the Tecnica R9.8 (26,5-305/306 to 27,5/315) ?
As for your question, take it as it is but at the end of last year I spoke to a boy who said that he was skiing in a stretched out pair of Dalbello W.Cs. , the stretching was done by the same bootfitter whose services I get, and the boy claimed that the boots were stretched by two full sizes. I cannot guarantee that was realy so, apart that it was not "a guy told this guy that another guy had..." having it heard firsthand from the user himself. Nor attest to the static and dynamic robustness of such a stretched boot, aside that I can really confirm from my experience that starting "small" and working toward widening/stretchig (in small, incremental steps) is the way to go if one really wants improve "precision skiing". Anyway, about the stretching I can only defer to the expert bootfitters here. Opposite to you, my problem is not with feet length, rather with width, so, I as an example I wear Salomon XTD size 43 2/3s or Blundstone boots of comparable size (I think it's a 9), but Birkenstock size 42 (which are quite wide across) with no problems at all...Plus, as for all humans, one foot is slightly wider (dont' remember exactly by how much) than the other...