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Of pizzas and french fries

Monique

bounceswoosh
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I think the key is teaching movements not teaching "the wedge" or "parallel". If you teach never ever skiers the right movements, they can be off to the races in very little time. If they are taught and use the correct movements, they can have fun from day 1. My coach is a great skier and a great teacher. I have shadowed many of his Level 1 classes and it is amazing what people can do in one day. I have taught many people who are frightened to the point where they won't move and by the end of the day, they are making wedge Christy turns at the pace they want to go with no problem.

This is what scares me (thread drift) about the idea of teaching never-evers, if/when I eventually do so. I mean, in a paid capacity. I can pretty reliably provide some useful feedback to level 6 and 7 skiers, and often to 8s, and sometimes even to 9s (I'm not saying anyone should hire me to teach any of those lessons, just that I can watch them ski and usually have an idea of what could be better, although not necessarily a drill or thought to help them fix it), but a never-ever? So much responsibility. So different. Or is it?
 

Nancy Hummel

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This is what scares me (thread drift) about the idea of teaching never-evers, if/when I eventually do so. I mean, in a paid capacity. I can pretty reliably provide some useful feedback to level 6 and 7 skiers, and often to 8s, and sometimes even to 9s (I'm not saying anyone should hire me to teach any of those lessons, just that I can watch them ski and usually have an idea of what could be better, although not necessarily a drill or thought to help them fix it), but a never-ever? So much responsibility. So different. Or is it?

Teaching never evers is great because they don't have any ingrained movement patterns. It is a great opportunity to introduce people to skiing. It is wonderful to watch them experience skiing for the first time. It also is a great opportunity for instructors to examine their own basic movement patterns and fine tune a lot of things.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Teaching never evers is great because they don't have any ingrained movement patterns. It is a great opportunity to introduce people to skiing. It is wonderful to watch them experience skiing for the first time. It also is a great opportunity for instructors to examine their own basic movement patterns and fine tune a lot of things.

Right. I just hope I get a lot of training before anyone lets me let loose on hapless beginners.
 

LiquidFeet

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This is what scares me (thread drift) about the idea of teaching never-evers, if/when I eventually do so. I mean, in a paid capacity. I can pretty reliably provide some useful feedback to level 6 and 7 skiers, and often to 8s, and sometimes even to 9s (I'm not saying anyone should hire me to teach any of those lessons, just that I can watch them ski and usually have an idea of what could be better, although not necessarily a drill or thought to help them fix it), but a never-ever? So much responsibility. So different. Or is it?

I think yes, teaching never-evers is very different from teaching those who can already turn left and right. Much of the latter is correcting what's ineffective or inefficient. As you watch them ski, you can often see what might help them ski better. That narrows down what you will choose to work on during the lesson. But teaching the never-ever involves teaching them everything, with a huge responsibility hanging over your shoulder. That's to not teach them anything that has to be undone later. Pressure!!! Plus, they are sometimes terrified.

IME something always has to be undone in a lesson with someone who can already turn and stop. That's what teaching intermediates is all about. I have yet to teach an intermediate who had no problems, who was simply moving through the "orthodox program" and who was ready for the next step. Such skiers may be out there, but they haven't dropped into my daily schedule yet.

Last year I came upon a very seasoned instructor teaching a lesson to a group of never-ever adults. I've always respected her as a skier and a teacher; we've shared lots of stories. But I've never seen her teach. She had this group of five adults on an unexpected trail, and several of them were having grave difficulties. In front of them was a very steep drop. I wondered about that.... I'd never have taken a group of never-evers onto that trail in the first place. Later I talked with her. She was ranting about how they were unable to do the very simplest things, and that the lesson was the hardest thing she had ever taught. As we talked, I learned she had NEVER taught a group of never-ever adults. She has been teaching seasonal groups of kids all along. Evidently her successes with the seasonal groups did not transfer to teaching adult noobies.

Draw your own conclusions....
 
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Monique

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Last year I came upon a very seasoned instructor who has taught much longer than me, with a group of never-evers. She had them on an unexpected trail, and several of them were having grave difficulties. In front of them was a very steep drop. I wondered about that.... I'd never have had that group on that trail in the first place. Later I talked with her. She was ranting about how they were unable to do the very simplest things, and that the lesson was the hardest thing she had ever taught. As we talked, I learned she had NEVER taught a group of never-ever adults. She has been teaching seasonal groups of kids all along.

Everything I've heard from instructors talking about a true never-ever class is that they spend most of the time just going over proper boot fit, clicking in, standing on your skis, maybe some side stepping ... how on earth could they end up on an "unexpected trail"???
 

LiquidFeet

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She took them there. Our "beginner" area has a number of trails that are inappropriate for beginner adults. Those newbies need to be able to make short parallel turns (or almost parallel) with counter and angulation before going onto those narrow trails. These folk did not have that set of skills yet. They were having difficulty with wedge turns, period. She over-terrained them because of inexperience.

What she didn't know was how difficult it is for an adult to give up the wedge in the early stages of learning when frightened by a sudden steep drop on a narrow trail. She also did not know the importance of an adult needing to be able turn those skis manually without resorting to upper body rotation on such a trail. Upper body-lower body separation is really important for getting down those steep drops (I'm talking "steep" from a beginner's point of view, not a seasoned skier's point of view). Beginners in a first lesson (one and a half hours) usually don't learn to do that. She also did not know they needed to be able to put almost all their weight onto the outside ski by the time it pointed down the fall line in order to get a turn to fit into these very narrow trails.

The kids in her seasonal program are short little pyramids in a wedge. They are quite stable. They can get down that drop with "spontaneous christies." They will not be thinking about Sunday's drive home and the need for getting the kids to school on Monday and getting the self to work without a cast on the leg or a broken neck.
 
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Monique

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:nono:
 

Jilly

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I love teaching never-evers. The progress they make in 1-2 hours is so rewarding. When I was teaching at a big resort, I had 2 sisters as never-evers one afternoon. The next afternoon they came back. So I told the supervisor that they were ready for Nansen...our green run. They did great. The chair lift was a little scary after the "tapis magik", but they got the hang of it.

But back to the original question. Lessons are needed all through the journey of skiing. Even though I have CSIA certification, I've been doing high performance lessons the last 3 years at Tremblant. I've learned so much about technique and a lot more about teaching.

That said, the highest failure rate on the CSIA IV exams is wedge turns. Those participants need to come down to the never-ever group once in a while. It is not beneath them.
 

McEl

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Re 1000 steps drill.

In post # 47 you asked a question about this exercise, and yes, introducing it at the beginner level will help reduce the rigidity of a new skier.

Mastering this kind of movement is a predicate to becoming a very good skier, for many reasons, but two primary reasons can be characterized as developing lateral (side-to-side) balance, in general, and, specifically, developing the ability to balance equally well on either foot, that is, the inside foot as well as the outside foot.

Regarding balancing on either foot, independently, it is almost cruel that a new skier spends so much time and effort becoming proficient at “balancing on the outside ski”, as they should and must, and then, almost as soon as the skier starts having a high opinion of himself in this regard, some ‘cruel’ instructor or coach will ‘pop their balloon’ and say, You are not finished: to really advance you must now learn to balance on the inside ski and make turns on the inside ski.

From that moment on the now-high intermediate skier faces more years of practicing different ways to make the inside ski behave. The inside ski seems to have a mind of its own. The little toe edge (LTE) is very difficult on its own. A large part of developing control over the inside ski (uphill ski) is the so-called “1000” steps drill and its variations. It should become part of each day’s warm-up routine.

When to use it, that is, what level skiers should use it? As soon as a skier can make a basic wedge turn she should start on ‘wedge-busting’ activities that encourage a parallel orientation of the skis. Stepping as one traverses is an excellent activity for this purpose. Of course it will be clumsy at the beginner level, and a beginning wedge turner will be able to manage only one or two steps, but that is the beginning of using 1000 Steps.

At the advanced level 1000 Steps is part of most progressions leading to skiing on one ski.

Here is a link to a video demonstrating 1000 Steps. The video shows an advanced/expert skier demonstrating what many would consider perfect execution of the drill.

Bobby’s
Here are two other videos showing some variations.


USSA

PSIA-RM step turn https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...f39f2e73865e9dbbc41449b7e474f236&action=click




Regards, McEl
 

Jilly

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I think part of my aversion to using 1000 steps is the concussion I got (long before helmets) when a student of a good 225lbs hit me. And we were only doing the exercise as a traverse.

Unlock the ankle, set it free!
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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OH! I've done that drill!

I suck at it, but I've done it!
 

VickieH

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I've tried that, but didn't realize 1000 Steps is its name. It's something I need to work on. Good reminder.

Unlock the ankle, set it free!
Jilly, I've seen you mention unlocking the ankle a couple of times recently. Any specific drills or movements you'd recommend?
 
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Mendieta

Mendieta

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In post # 47 you asked a question about this exercise, and yes, introducing it at the beginner level will help reduce the rigidity of a new skier.

Mastering this kind of movement is a predicate to becoming a very good skier, for many reasons, but two primary reasons can be characterized as developing lateral (side-to-side) balance, in general, and, specifically, developing the ability to balance equally well on either foot, that is, the inside foot as well as the outside foot.

Thank you, @McEl . In a sense, is it fair to say that Javelin turns train you for the usual (outside ski), white pass for the unusual (inside ski), and thousand step are a dynamic, continuous transition between the two?

So many drills to go through, this season
:wag:
 

markojp

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All skiers, even top level ski in the slightest if slight wedge. If you ski in a full fledged true parallel you will find yourself hooking the inside edges and face planting tips out over and over. It's the avoidance of that that hedges us to very slight wedges all the time when turning.

This is silly.
 

markojp

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Everything I've heard from instructors talking about a true never-ever class is that they spend most of the time just going over proper boot fit, clicking in, standing on your skis, maybe some side stepping ... how on earth could they end up on an "unexpected trail"???

I make it a point to teach never evers several times during a season even if I can assign them to someone else. A 'seasoned' instructor should have no trouble with this. I do it as much for staff as for guests. Good instruction has to be modeled at every level. One of the best never ever lessons I've ever seen was taught by a long time divisional staff member. It was brilliant, and I absolutely 'borrowed' from him. In two hours we can usually be making controlled turns on our chairlift served beginner hill. Sure, there are occasionally folks who have trouble with this, and sometimes we take people in to the rental area to sort out a gear issue... but the 'unexpected trail' doesn't happen to someone who teaches at an area frequently. Hopefully that person's supervisor has a constructive talk with them.
 
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Monique

bounceswoosh
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VickieH...lots of skiers get static, hang around the front of the boot. This locks the ankle and that lack of movement causes problems with all kinds of things.

And ... it's no surprise, since many instructors give an unambiguous command to stay forward in the boot come hell or high water, crush the grape, crush the quarter, etc.
 

LiquidFeet

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The unexpected trail story was mine, about a colleague of mine.
We have a very very laissez-faire ski school.
Adult never-ever group lessons are all an hour and a half.
I get the impression that the big mountains out west have well-designed beginner terrain and more pedagogical oversight than some of the smaller mountains here in NE.
 

LiquidFeet

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McEl, thanks for those 1000 steps videos.

I teach 1000 steps for the bottom of the turn with my never-evers. We morph a star turn into thousand steps, focusing on diverging the tip of the uphill/inside ski while keeping both skis edged for grip. The stated goal is to successfully turn uphill to a stop. This is how they learn that the uphill stop is a seriously important thing to be able to do, and that turning uphill (completed turns) will slow them down and help them maintain speed control.

Before we do this exercise, all they have is the wedge in a straight run downhill. The extra big pay-off (which I don't verbally point out) for the 1000 step exercise is getting frightened beginners to move from foot to foot while sliding across the trail.

Getting them to step downhill and through the fall line in that short lesson isn't going to happen, though. Our beginner hill has too much pitch and no flat run-out, so their sense of self-preservation won't let them do it. I don't want to jeopardize the trust I'm building by asking them to do that.

But the videos have reminded me that this drill is a worthy one for cautious intermediates who are stiff in their skiing. I realize I've not used it enough; this season it will go onto my list of go-to exercises.
 
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