NYT's article on Ikon/Epic and weekend skiing changes at some resorts

[Eleeski]

@Brian Finch The shadows are awfully long for a noon photo?

At least lifts did open - that can be even more frustrating (Alterra, so far, is better than KSL at Squaw at that).

I was in the line at Squaw on the Fourth. Was outrageously long! We still got through it in around an hour. The lifts up top were very busy so we skied down. Came back at noon and had manageable crowds. Timing is everything.

Lift technology has made huge lines have manageable wait times (I've never seen a fixed chair move at anywhere near the speed of a detachable). Shirley's typical good holiday line would make a good photo for a less than 10 minute wait. But technology hasn't helped parking lots or restaurants. Yet.

Squaw is dead right now. Empty lots, empty restaurants, bored employees but I did share one chair today. There is a difficult balancing act for the resorts.

Eric

 

[David Chaus]

That comment only applied to the gondola. The lift 5 situation in the back bowls was commented on separately, and she acknowledged that it was a problem from 10:30 to after 2:00 PM. As far as I know, all of the big lift line pics that I've seen are from the back bowls. I don't think I've seen any from the gondola lines, but I haven't been looking.

Beth “I want to assure you that those lines were gone by 10 a.m. on Friday and by 9:15 a.m. on Saturday.”

This was posted Lunchtime, Saturday:

View attachment 93507

Beth is FOS.

Maybe Beth isn’t FOS so much as guilty of a lie of omission. Yes the gondola lines dispersed quickly enough, just like what happens at Whistler and other places. And yes, there were long lines and massive crowds at the Back Bowls, not like the first time that’s every happened.

And even so, she could still be one of the nicest people you’d ever meet. Maybe even responsible. Maybe she’s a great skier. I dunno....

So, what should Vail have done that day? Or what could they have done? Should they have posted more signs telling people the lift line times in the Back Bowls? Stopped ticket sales? Should they be blamed (and shamed) for having a successful marketing machine and selling a lot of passes?

I do have complaints with Vail for how they are managing (or mismanaging) lift line queues at Stevens Pass, not to mention the drop off in food quality while improving prices. While a lot of staff no longer looks stoned as in past years, and there are a lot fewer tattoos and piercings on lifties as in recent past seasons (no judgments here), they seem to be using a lot of J-1’s from Brazil who don’t seem empowered to do anything but scan your pass, certainly don’t seem to do any lift life merge management they way they used to. But I digress....

As noted Crystal Mt has dealt with some crowding issues by stopping walk-up ticket sales on weekends and holidays during peak season, mostly to keep people from driving up the 6 mile long drive only to find there’s no parking available. They haven’t yet said they would implement such measures during a mid-week powder day, and I don’t know if they would have the staff on hand to do so. And maybe it’ll never be an issue, but I have seen some serious traffic on mid-week powder days in past years at Stevens, assuming there aren’t road closures or slowdowns.

So again, Pug brain trust, what solutions are practical and acceptable to both Vail and to its clientele?

 

[dbostedo]

So again, Pug brain trust, what solutions are practical and acceptable to both Vail and to its clientele?

Since you quoted me, I'll assume this was in part directed at me. But nothing I said was critical of Vail. I was just re-iterating/clarifying what the statement from them said, with regard to what @Brian Finch said/posted. I have no thoughts on anything different they should have done on that day - as there probably wasn't much they could have done (other than maybe keep the back bowls closed?).

They could think about it for the future though... it could be something they learn from. Maybe they'll come up with an answer.

 

[David Chaus]

Since you quoted me, I'll assume this was in part directed at me. But nothing I said was critical of Vail. I was just re-iterating/clarifying what the statement from them said, with regard to what @Brian Finch said/posted. I have no thoughts on anything different they should have done on that day - as there probably wasn't much they could have done (other than maybe keep the back bowls closed?).

They could think about it for the future though... it could be something they learn from. Maybe they'll come up with an answer.

Actually I quoted you not to direct it at you or disagree but to highlight what you posted.

I am more interested in discussing workable solutions rather than pile on complaints and criticisms, though many of these are warranted.

 

[Muleski]

My son was waiting in the line at Lift 5 with a group of six 15 year old girls that he coaches. For just over two hours. The absolute worst timing. Got in line at about 11:00 AM, I believe. He said it was huge snow, huge number of people, and BlueSky not being open.

He's also lived and coached in North Lake Tahoe and at Mammoth. His comment was that three feet at Vail is incredibly unusual and crippled much of the mountain. It would be " heavy dusting" at Mammoth. Vail doesn't see 60-70 feet in a season. They were overwhelmed and doing slide mitigation work at Blue Sky. If you skied down Sunup or Sundown, you hit that mess at Lift 5.

Perfect storm. Was he pleased ?...hell no. Not much that they could do about it. They had a village full of people who were anxious to get up the hill at the opening, and get the goods. many dove right down to the base of lift 5. Arriving at a much faster rate than the lift could move them up.

The story that he mentioned that I thought was "different" was of a friend who skied down from the top of Game Creek Bowl to the bottom, and upon seeing the liftline there, pulled out his skins and skinned all the way up and out of the bowl. Maybe that was faster than a long lifeline. Sounds logical, until you realize that you can SEE the lift base and lifeline from the top of the bowl. Not sure how much this guy was paying attention. Sounds like he MIGHT have avoided that.

On a different topic, having grown up in Stowe, and skied there an awful lot over the years, the minute that I heard of the VR acquisition, I though Epic, followed by traffic and parking issues. A shame.

 

[Green08]

Here along I-70 people should hit up A-Basin and Ski Cooper. I think it might be pretty easy to avoid crowds that way.

How much do you care about high speed detachable lifts and nice lodges and other amenities of comfort?

We also might want to consult a previous thread on the topic of why people don’t like powder days—last weekend is pretty much exhibit A for many in CO

 

[tball]

And the poor guy who fell from the chair and stopped the lift.


Did he have to go to the back of the line?

 

[raytseng]

This back bowls fiasco is just a magnified version at other rope drops that go to a trap.

If you miss the initial drop or you got it but attempt a second lap you better be prepared to pay with time.
Theres a couple other places I've experienced 40min of the same thingspecifically within Miserable Basin or Mott Canyon at Heavenly.

If we're concluding they are all experienced passholders though, with modern technology, all this info is available so you know how much runs will cost you in time. They should know its a trap if you miss the drop on a powder day. If you're late on a weekend, bust out the epicmix app and check the lift wait times to know your cost.

If were concluding they aren't experts, I would say waiting in in a 2hr line should be instructive enough for them to remember to check next time.
Then again 420, so maybe the locals don't plan ahead that far.

 

[raytseng]

The story that he mentioned that I thought was "different" was of a friend who skied down from the top of Game Creek Bowl to the bottom, and upon seeing the liftline there, pulled out his skins and skinned all the way up and out of the bowl.

Could also be the guy just enjoys hiking out especially if he already has the gear. or the novelty of lording it over the resort skiers that he isn't trapped. I've seen at mott canyon, people choosing to hike back out vs wait, there is at least a cattrail out.

 

[Brian Finch]

Actually I quoted you not to direct it at you or disagree but to highlight what you posted.

I am more interested in discussing workable solutions rather than pile on complaints and criticisms, though many of these are warranted.

Look, I’m lesser concerned with what Vail does. I do not ski there. I’m more invested in the manner “ski talk at a higher level” occurs.

I’d like to be able to trust the information on this site as accurate & actionable. The use of logical fallacies, such as discussing the character of the spokes person giving the apology, deflects from the actual fact that they are being deceitful in their remorse.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

So again, Pug brain trust, what solutions are practical and acceptable to both Vail and to its clientele?

Well, that's the thing, they had to know they were creating these problems. There's probably nothing they could have done on Saturday when the problem occurred. They needed to look ahead a few years back as they started to grow the empire. Maybe some of their chairs need to be high-speed 8s. Where I ski, everyone knew it would get like this when Vail came in, and they just ignore it and act like it's fine.

 

[LKLA]

Look, I’m lesser concerned with what Vail does. I do not ski there. I’m more invested in the manner “ski talk at a higher level” occurs.

I’d like to be able to trust the information on this site as accurate & actionable. The use of logical fallacies, such as discussing the character of the spokes person giving the apology, deflects from the actual fact that they are being deceitful in their remorse.

It seems like you were not at Vail when this incident took place, that you have never spoken with Beth or anyone on the MTN management team, that you don’t ski at any MTN properties, that you don’t know when the photos you reference were actually taken vs when they were posted on social media,...yet you seem to claim that your opinion is fact.

That it’s a fact that MTN is being deceitful, that they are not honest in their remorse, that all the other posters, some of whom were actually there or who know Beth or who do ski/work at MTN properties, are wrong. And, nothing posted on Pugski can be trusted - except your posts - because you are of the opinion that you are being misinformed.

Life is too short!

 

[Brian Finch]

It seems like you were not at Vail when this incident took place, that you have never spoken with Beth or anyone on the MTN management team, that you don’t ski at any MTN properties, that you don’t know when photos you reference were actually taken vs when they were posted on social media,...yet you seem to claim that your opinion is fact. That it’s a fact that MTN is being deceitful in their remorse, that all the other posters, some of whom were actually there or who know Beth or who do ski/work at MTN properties, are wrong. And, nothing posted on Pugski can be trusted - except your posts - because you are of the opinion that you are being misinformed.

You have to weigh the evidence.You have hundreds of independent photos claiming that the lift lines were out of control and a statement that says 180° differenly.

Part of the reason to come on the site is to get accurate information.

@Muleski appears to corroborate this issue. Josh & @Erik Timmerman have been citing similar issues at Stowe.

If you want to continue your shill – I hope you’re on the payroll at a minimum.

Had I been told that lift lines were going to dissipate after an hour and took my five-year-old out there on that beta – I would be furious and I would hope that this site would buffer me from that scenario.

Last I checked- that’s how this works. I share , you share & we’re all a lil better informed.

 

[LKLA]

You have to weigh the evidence.You have hundreds of independent photos claiming that the lift lines were out of control and a statement that says 180° differenly.

Part of the reason to come on the site is to get accurate information.

@Muleski appears to corroborate this issue. Josh & @Erik Timmerman have been citing similar issues at Stowe.

If you want to continue your shill – I hope you’re on the payroll at a minimum.

Had I been told that lift lines were going to dissipate after an hour and took my five-year-old out there on that beta – I would be furious and I would hope that this site would buffer me from that scenario.

Last I checked- that’s how this works. I share , you share & we’re all a lil better informed.

Makes perfect sense

 

[dbostedo]

...a statement that says 180° differenly.

I'm still not sure it does. Were there major mid-day problems at any lifts other than 5? They acknowledged (while of course down-playing it) that lift 5 was a big issue.

 

[dbostedo]

...within Miserable Basin...

Clever pun? Or Freudian slip? Or has autocorrect gained sentience, and decided it has an opinion on Mineral Basin?

 

[PinnacleJim]

That comment only applied to the gondola. The lift 5 situation in the back bowls was commented on separately, and she acknowledged that it was a problem from 10:30 to after 2:00 PM. As far as I know, all of the big lift line pics that I've seen are from the back bowls. I don't think I've seen any from the gondola lines, but I haven't been looking.

There were pics of a long line at the gondola posted, but I think it may have been from Friday.

 

[DanoT]

I will be forever grateful to Vail Resorts for starting the Season Pass Wars, but I don't plan on skiing any of their resorts any time soon.

 

[Jilly]

Whistler natives have started a petition to "make Whistler great again". I won't say anything more as it could get political.

 

[DanoT]

Whistler natives have started a petition to "make Whistler great again". I won't say anything more as it could get political.

Stage 2 (also applies to Vail) with apologies to Yogi Berra, nobody goes there anymore because it is too crowded.