Not hip dumping. What’s it take?

[karlo]

Talk to Tom Gellie - he'll fix you. Great guy and very knowledgeable, kind of a specialty for him. I don't think he posts here, you'll find him on Facebook. Look for The Foot Collective / Tom Gellie.

cheers

He’s kinda far. But, his videos are a great resource for skiers, instructors and coaches. Me, what I need is to be able to ski with a mirror, like when I struggled doing a passè. Next best thing, my being in the East, would be to buy a racing suit, head up to Killington and ski with @Brian Finch to have him dissect my left footers.

 

[razie]

He’s kinda far.

Nope, he's not - just a video call away. Just ping him, if you actually have/had injuries that can use qualified help...

(unrelated)
It's also interesting to look at this the other way. A coach that understands biomechanics and movements can diagnose injuries and/or limitations as well, from drills and skiing. Even I managed to diagnose a few, surprising some parents by diagnosing injuries/limitations they did not mention or didn't even know about, in one case... It's always fun, when they don't tell you and you're pulling your hair why this or that doesn't work... I now always ask about injuries upfront...

 

[Brian Finch]

Sooooo.... I love what @Noodler is saying & see where @razie is going, but have a different explanation.

When you look at Dated Razie, the knees are knocked & the inside pelvis is ‘leading the turn’.

New Razie/JFB show that the hips are ‘on’ to allow the quads to accept the load (O stance? - forgiveness please on my vernaculars) & the pelvis/core are active in resistance to the dump & maintaining the strong posture.

What I recall from skiing with you @karlo was the Left side was ‘not on board’ with the work & the your boots were marble flexed Nordica consumer models.

I would get you in mellow terrain on your AT boot & work the forefoot & subtalar rolling whilst commanding a strong posture/core control.

As I think I said in the motor control thread, it’s either pure motions or compensations. If ya remember what I detailed with @Dan Egan, the Limbics/Reticular Activating Systems (memories) actual serve to drive tone & posture- thus “Always seek a positive relationships with movement!”.

Speed suits not required, but we should ski again soon!

 

[Eleeski]

So, what limitations in motion and strength did the old hip have?

I struggled to walk. I couldn't tip my hips from side to side much. I couldn't twist from the hips much. I couldn't cross my legs (or feet!). My spread eagle was lame. I needed a new hip for three years.

I did a lot of rehab during that time. My legs, butt and core were quite strong. I had several good placements in high level waterski tournaments. I was able to charge West Face's bumps and enjoy the powder. So I was coping fairly well. Until I pulled the other leg's hamstring. Two bad wheels were too much and I went for the surgery.

Great move! Rocked the ice, reveled in the powder and attacked the bumps 4 months later. Won Nationals in waterskiing 9 months later.

If you need a hip, get it replaced. Do it while you are young enough to enjoy it. The Birmingham hip that I got is targeted for under 60 but they did mine after that age. My brother's second hip, he waited too long and they couldn't do a Birmingham hip for him (found out after they opened him up). He's pretty happy with both his Birmingham left hip and Stryker right hip now.

The biggest advantage to the Birmingham hip is that if you break it, a standard total hip will fix things. Fixing a damaged total hip is a much bigger deal.

I believe Floyd Landis has a Birmingham hip and trained for pro cycling with it (other factors hampered his comeback).

Sorry for the thread drift but for me, the hardware mattered more than technique.

Eric

 

[razie]

Sooooo.... I love what @Noodler is saying & see where @razie is going, but have a different explanation.

When you look at Dated Razie, the knees are knocked & the inside pelvis is ‘leading the turn’.

exactly, that's typical - to move the hips first, you need to get that leg out of the way, to allow the hip to drop, so you internally rotate the tibia, resulting in just that look.

 

[karlo]

the Left side was ‘not on board’

Yeah, we’re having communication issues. I’ve got to continue on working on that relationship.

hamstring

Ya. That be really bad. I mentioned glutes. But, I really have both a glute and hamstring issue.

Sorry for the thread drift but for me, the hardware mattered more than technique.

You could start a thread in the gear and hardware section.

If you need a hip, get it replaced.

The hip ortho says my hip is fine. But, that’s from the point of view of the bones and gaps. I can tell that it’s not moving fine. That must be muscle firing sequence and strength to hold things in place. If I don’t fix that, I probably will wear out the hip, and the next, and the next.

biomechanics and movements

Those are at the top of my wish list for PSIA courses. If I’m lucky, I’ll get both in this season.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....
Those are at the top of my wish list for PSIA courses. If I’m lucky, I’ll get both in this season.

@karlo, you are an instructor?

 

[karlo]

@karlo, you are an instructor?

Yes.

 

[geepers]

it took 3 days of slow lonely practice (just three drills) to cure it

Razie, do you mind advising which 3 drills?

 

[razie]

Razie, do you mind advising which 3 drills?

as I remember, I did mostly braquage, phantom and phantom javelin. rinse and repeat ad nauseam with small variations and slow runs mixed in, to lock it in. I've done it since to others with good results, but now I'd use a somewhat different mix of drills and progression. For those to be effective, you need to pay attention to the cues and exaggerate ROM. Also avoiding skiing with any kind of power for a while is important, so those runs were really slow...

...sounds extreme... and it is, but I really wanted to pass that course.

...and then 4 days in gates during the course

cheers

 

[Tom Holtmann]

as I remember, I did mostly braquage, phantom and phantom javelin. rinse and repeat ad nauseam with small variations and slow runs mixed in, to lock it in. I've done it since to others with good results, but now I'd use a somewhat different mix of drills and progression. For those to be effective, you need to pay attention to the cues and exaggerate ROM. Also avoiding skiing with any kind of power for a while is important, so those runs were really slow...

...sounds extreme... and it is, but I really wanted to pass that course.

...and then 4 days in gates during the course

cheers

What are the drills and progressions you use currently to lock in this movement?

 

[karlo]

For the purpose of this post, please refer to the OP and the video there, explaining a passé and what one should do and not do.

Now, I’ve videoed both my right footer and my left footer and invite folks to perform MA on them. I’ll preface it by saying that, for my left footer, it takes very considerable mental focus; whereas, with my right footer, it’s automatic, no thought at all. Just to get my left footer to my current capability, I had to pretty much do this


Please forgive the tree-pose. As the ballerina instructor says, in the OP’s video, I should have pointed my toes.

 

[Rod9301]

Just do a lot more left footers and they will improve

 

[Pequenita]

The passé position and tree pose both show where glute weaknesses are in the standing leg. It’s important to keep in mind that the standing leg in the passé is in external rotation, versus in neutral in tree. So from a functional perspective, tree is better at showing how hip muscle weaknesses could affect skiing because we don’t ski with legs in external rotation at the hip. In fact, a lot of people who walk with externally rotated legs still have kind of weak glute medius.

Anyway, as someone who taught yoga for a number of years, here are my thoughts: tree poses are better exercises for your purpose. Make sure the toes on the standing leg are facing forward. To engage the glutes on the standing leg, think about moving the outer hip towards the midline. Take care also to make sure both hip points are facing forward — that is, don’t worry about where your lifted knee is pointed, otherwise you’ll start twisting your pelvis around or inadvertently start tilting it. Also note, the lifted/bent leg is also externally rotating in the hip (more glute med engagement).

 

[karlo]

Just do a lot more left footers and they will improve

Unless it’s more and more of the wrong thing

 

[LuliTheYounger]

I would seriously recommend taking an adult beginning ballet class if you're interested in this kind of thing! You can usually do some kind of trial drop in for the first class or two. I went for a couple years in high school, and the combination of having a teacher who can spot you using your core or your leg wrong from across the room, plus a lot of repetition of simple movements while you can see what you're doing in the mirror, ended up teaching me a lot of lessons that I still go back to in every sport.

 

[Tony S]

Interesting observation. I have had many, many ankle sprains in my life. Started when I was in high school as a pole vaulter. So I get the idea that the inversion of the foot can drum up some ugly memories. However, I don't think that ever crossed my mind when I was first being taught this technique.

Probably because your boots weren't two or three sizes too big.

 

[Tony S]

This is a great contribution. Thanks.

The passé position and tree pose both show where glute weaknesses are in the standing leg. It’s important to keep in mind that the standing leg in the passé is in external rotation, versus in neutral in tree. So from a functional perspective, tree is better at showing how hip muscle weaknesses could affect skiing because we don’t ski with legs in external rotation at the hip. In fact, a lot of people who walk with externally rotated legs still have kind of weak glute medius.

Anyway, as someone who taught yoga for a number of years, here are my thoughts: tree poses are better exercises for your purpose. Make sure the toes on the standing leg are facing forward. To engage the glutes on the standing leg, think about moving the outer hip towards the midline. Take care also to make sure both hip points are facing forward — that is, don’t worry about where your lifted knee is pointed, otherwise you’ll start twisting your pelvis around or inadvertently start tilting it. Also note, the lifted/bent leg is also externally rotating in the hip (more glute med engagement).

 

[karlo]

The passé position and tree pose both show where glute weaknesses are in the standing leg. It’s important to keep in mind that the standing leg in the passé is in external rotation, versus in neutral in tree. So from a functional perspective, tree is better at showing how hip muscle weaknesses could affect skiing because we don’t ski with legs in external rotation at the hip

I think your conclusion is right. However, I am not sure that it is correct that we don't ski with legs in external rotation. At the top of the turn, outside ski above us, the legs are in external rotation. And, what we need to do, as we turn, is internally rotate as the turn progresses. That said, I perceive the following when I ski

1. My left waist pinches excessively in the belly of the turn, where the forces are highest. I am referring to higher g turns.
2. I am much worse off entering a mogul on a left footer than a right footer.

So, functionally, where the forces are highest, when the glutes need to be most engaged, I'd say yes, we are not in external rotation.

 

[karlo]

So, yesterday was my first day of the season. Skied on groomer and made a discovery. It’s my left turns, right footers, that, if I don’t watch it hip dumps. As my left leg is internally rotating and at the end of a right turn, my pelvis gets pulled into a rotation, left side going forward, right side going back. To prevent that, I have to do what I’ve been working on in the studio, that is, I have to extend my left sits-bone downwards. I.e., something is right and I have to stretch it. Does this all make sense?

1. Pelvis rotating, at end of turn, will result in hip lead and hip dump in next turn??

2. is a left hip injury consistent with left-turn hip dumping??

3. What is it that’s tight that would cause an internal rotation to pull my hip around??