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New England NH proposes tax on ski tickets

pchewn

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Cool. what did you do if a lift was down for the day you were at a particular mountain? Stay over till you skied it? Or, just chalked it up as an Act of Ullr?

Yeah, an act of Ullr.

The Hodag lift at Willamette pass was closed.
The Blue lift at Mt Hood Meadows was closed (only open on peak days when overcrowded)
All the lifts at Spout Springs were closed. That ski area has not re-opened.... (I hiked up and skied down)
 

Wasatchman

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Strange to single out skiing of all things for this tax. As others said, looks like they are targeting tourists, and hotels/meal taxes are already in place. Does anyone know if New Hampshire has a car rental tax? I guess they figured since hotels/meals are already taxed, there weren't a lot of other choices to try and tax that heavily skews tourist. Rental cars would seem like an obvious one if that isn't already heavily taxed in NH.

As a tourist, I really get frustrated by high taxes that are in place to soak tourists. That said, as long as the tax isn't completely outrageous, I end up sucking it up and usually quickly forgetting about it when I am on vacation.
 

Tom K.

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My position is that we need to promote physical activity, not tax it

Absolutely!

I'm personally in favor of darn near anything that gets people -- esp young people -- out from behind their devices.
 

AaronFM

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Strange to single out skiing of all things for this tax. As others said, looks like they are targeting tourists, and hotels/meal taxes are already in place. Does anyone know if New Hampshire has a car rental tax? I guess they figured since hotels/meals are already taxed, there weren't a lot of other choices to try and tax that heavily skews tourist. Rental cars would seem like an obvious one if that isn't already heavily taxed in NH.

As a tourist, I really get frustrated by high taxes that are in place to soak tourists. That said, as long as the tax isn't completely outrageous, I end up sucking it up and usually quickly forgetting about it when I am on vacation.


There is a 9% tax on car rentals, though not sure what percentage of our out of state skiers fly into MHT/LEB vs drive. I would think that regional visitors vastly outnumber people who fly in. Leisure travelers in/out of MHT are down drastically over the past decade.

You are right that there is not much more to single out and tax around out of state recreation. Out of state snowmobile, boat, and ATV users pay $87-$97/yr for the privilege.

Tourism is the states second largest industry, so I can see why some think taxing lift tickets the next logical progression to fund state programs. We don’t need to look further than Keno or sports betting though to see how a ‘tax’ directed to fund a specific program falls well short though.

That said - going back to my other thread - will an out of state family decide to go to Stowe rather than Loon and pay a 9% room and meal tax, plus a 5% sales tax on the lift ticket and whatever else they will buy because of this? Will a local kid who’s in the after-school ski program at Pat’s, or Whaleback, or Eustis still be able to attend?
 
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frontfive

frontfive

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That said - going back to my other thread - will an out of state family decide to go to Stowe rather than Loon and pay a 9% room and meal tax, plus a 5% sales tax on the lift ticket and whatever else they will buy because of this? Will a local kid who’s in the after-school ski program at Pat’s, or Whaleback, or Eustis still be able to attend?

I feel it will be the local kids & families that will bear the weight of this tax over tourists. After school programs are vital- in fact both my husband & I learned to ski this way. Blue collar parents who did all they could to put a little aside each winter so we could learn to ski. Add in 9% tax and maybe that after school program now shifts to another activity such as iceskating or indoor soccer. I would hope the non profits such as Eustis would be exempt, but smaller mountains like Pats will be affected Im sure. As for tourism, NH has the advantage over ME & VT as there is no sales tax. There was a recent article posted stating that VT tickets are the highest in the region topping $147 at Stowe! Adding 9% to BW ($104 weekend) still gives NH a slight advantage.
 

sparty

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I feel it will be the local kids & families that will bear the weight of this tax over tourists. After school programs are vital- in fact both my husband & I learned to ski this way. Blue collar parents who did all they could to put a little aside each winter so we could learn to ski. Add in 9% tax and maybe that after school program now shifts to another activity such as iceskating or indoor soccer. I would hope the non profits such as Eustis would be exempt, but smaller mountains like Pats will be affected Im sure. As for tourism, NH has the advantage over ME & VT as there is no sales tax. There was a recent article posted stating that VT tickets are the highest in the region topping $147 at Stowe! Adding 9% to BW ($104 weekend) still gives NH a slight advantage.

Schools don't* pay sales tax in Vermont. If—which seems unlikely—this tax goes through, I'd expect to see a similar exemption for schools in New Hampshire.

*: well, they're not required to, but getting out of it for retail sales can be more trouble than it's worth for small items.
 

MissySki

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Whoever purchases Epic/Ikon online pays sales tax to their home state, therefore bypassing the NH ski tax. Of course if they visit NH, the current 9% rooms & meals tax would apply to lodging & food, but that is nothing new & would not fund new education scholarships.

I purchased and Ikon pass in a MA Costco last year and directly through Ikon online this year. I also have a New England silver pass purchased online through Sunday River. No taxes on any of these purchases.
 
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frontfive

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Schools don't* pay sales tax in Vermont. If—which seems unlikely—this tax goes through, I'd expect to see a similar exemption for schools in New Hampshire.

*: well, they're not required to, but getting out of it for retail sales can be more trouble than it's worth for small items.

Many after school programs do not fall under the umbrella of "schools" in terms of non taxable status because they are activities run by parents & other organizations. I know my parents paid 100% of the cost, there was zero school funding for my recreational ski program. Current day my daughters "after school" ski program is funded the same way. As a parent I pay 100% of the cost directly to the mountain as I sign up on the mountains website (would become taxable), and I pay a separate bus fee to the school for her transportation (non-taxable). Now if you are referring to schools with ski teams as part of a structured athletic program I fully agree they should be exempt.
 
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frontfive

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I purchased and Ikon pass in a MA Costco last year and directly through Ikon online this year. I also have a New England silver pass purchased online through Sunday River. No taxes on any of these purchases.

Interesting, so no sales tax in MA or ME on ski tickets? May I ask if you live in MA, and if so are ticket purchases usually tax exempt? In my past experience (and honestly I haven't lived in MA since I was 6, so I'm no expert), but I have known friends/family from both states who have utilized NH addresses of other friends/family for purchases to help avoid paying state tax..... not supporting or condoning this practice just trying to gather factual vs. subjective information.
 
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MissySki

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Interesting, so no sales tax in MA or ME on ski tickets? May I ask if you live in MA, and if so are ticket purchases usually tax exempt? In my past experience (and honestly I haven't lived in MA since I was 6, so I'm no expert), but I have known friends/family from both states who have utilized NH addresses of other friends/family for purchases to help avoid paying state tax..... not supporting or condoning this practice just trying to gather factual vs. subjective information.

I live in MA, and have no “tax free” hookups in NH unfortunately. :)
I can only speak for season passes since I don’t usually buy day tickets, but they appear to be tax exempt from Sunday River in ME and for Ikon purchased in MA. This article is interesting, it states that Vermont does tax lift tickets while Maine (explains my experience for that part) does not because it classifies lift tickets as a service rather than a good.. So i guess it varies. Also not sure if VT is taxing just tickets or season passes as well.

 
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frontfive

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What is this "Sales Tax" you people are talking about? (none in Oregon)
I just found this link to best explain sales tax & shows comparisons for all states

And specific to MA from https://www.mass.gov/sales-and-use-tax-for-businesses

The Massachusetts use tax is 6.25% of the sales price or rental charge on tangible personal property, including certain telecommunication services sold or rented in Massachusetts, including property purchased by phone, mail order, and online where sales tax was not collected or was paid at a lower tax rate. Use tax is generally paid directly to Massachusetts by the purchaser.

So if I go to the mall in Boston and say I want to buy an Apple Watch, I will pay sales tax of 6.25%. In NH (or Oregon) I would pay 0%. NH strategically builds malls and such to cater to MA residents in border towns. The only thing ever I purchase in MA is IKEA
 

EricG

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i guess it varies. Also not sure if VT is taxing just tickets or season passes as well.

Both.

But I hope it doesn’t pass in NH and NH turns it into a marketing strategy and redirects some of the traffic from VT.
 

AaronFM

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The text of the bill is out. The paragraph where the liquor stores will/may act as ticket agents is “interesting”. I also don’t see anything exempting non profits, schools, etc from the tax; or if non-profit areas also must register and collect the tax. Also the way I’m reading the language this would not apply to Nordic areas or Alpine/uphill skinning tickets.

 
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frontfive

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@AaronFM thank you for posting the bill text!

It's interesting how they chose to word this: "Ski area lift ticket" means providing for the entrance to and use of ski area transport up a hill for the purpose of recreational skiing or other winter sport activity. This term shall mean the sale and use of a ski area lift ticket valid for up to 3 days to a person over 18 years of age and shall not include season passes."

Skinning could be argued as "entrance and use of"...as could nordic or snowshoeing. Of course it could be argues that none of these "transport up a hill". You could also argue that children do not buy their own tickets, and the sale of those tickets will typically be to those over age 18. The legal language is often a joke, because it does not usually mirror the intent of the legislation & is written by legal staff based on the title submitted by the house or senate. I too see no exemptions for non-profits or schools. I'm just hoping it dies a swift death but that will depend on what house committee is assigned to review the bill.
 

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