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New Zealand Advanced Training takeaways, 2019

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mike_m

mike_m

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Liquidfeet: I laughed out loud at your Post #34 illustration! Thanks!

Mike K: Great post. Very well put.

Tomabcd: Yeah, Reilly displays the technique taught by the Rookies beautifully. (Of course, he also coaches there!)

Guys, you have to save up some money and join me there! Remember, the course cost is quoted in NZ dollars. One NZ dollar is about 63 cents U.S.
 
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mike_m

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The Rookies were originally founded as an instructor-training program, but they will accept non-instructors into the Advanced Program we've been discussing if you have the skills to ski moderate black ungroomed terrain comfortably and have a strong interest in technical skills development. Anyone who enjoys the kind of information and discussion we've had in this thread would likely be a great candidate! The best thing you can do is to go to the Rookie Academy website and contact Dean or Garett. Tell them you heard about the program from me and why you want to attend.

Hope to see you next August!

Best!
Mike
 

JESinstr

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@tomabcd LF posted a picture of the Elephant in the room above but truth is there is probably a herd of Elephants! One of them being velocity. To do what Reilly is doing takes Velocity. Velocity, surface conditions and spatial constraints plays a important role in deciding what technique is appropriate for the current situation. Like great craftsmen, great skiers have a bunch of arrows in the quiver to handle what comes at em. For shorter radius turns, getting the ski to bend takes velocity and an efficient and reliable way to rapidly build edge angles. For this situation, retraction transition is a good fit.

However, what comes after Reilly's transition is what you really need to be looking at ;)
 
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mike_m

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Paul Lorenz's new instruction video featuring him, Richie Berger, and Reilly should fit right into the focuses we've been discussing.
 
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mike_m

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And Alice Robinson just won her first World Cup GS (Schiffrin second). I guess that means I should listen to the coach who first got her on the podium! (Tim Cafe, our first-week coach at the Rookies this year)

I have to admit, skiing Loveland this week and applying what we were taught this summer has made a noticeable difference. Very cool sensation.

If anyone's coming up in the next two weeks, send me a PM. Let's make some turns!

Best!
Mike
 

LiquidFeet

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....I have to admit, skiing Loveland this week and applying what we were taught this summer has made a noticeable difference. Very cool sensation.....

Hey, @mike_m, would you be willing to describe what you're doing now that's giving you that cool sensation, and how it's different from the turn mechanics you used last year?
It sounds like the felt difference is striking.
 
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Thread Starter
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mike_m

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LF: It's a sense that the separate pieces I was introduced to, or had reinforced, are blending together into a continuous flow. Each individual focus makes sense and contributes (and feels good when you do it right), but now the parts are meshing. It's less mechanical. When each separate component is performed correctly, then works in harmony with the other parts, one part of the turn flows imperceptibly into the next and you can feel that this is the way it's supposed to be!

Best!
Mike
 

Mike King

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LF: It's a sense that the separate pieces I was introduced to, or had reinforced, are blending together into a continuous flow. Each individual focus makes sense and contributes (and feels good when you do it right), but now the parts are meshing. It's less mechanical. When each separate component is performed correctly, then works in harmony with the other parts, one part of the turn flows imperceptibly into the next and you can feel that this is the way it's supposed to be!

Best!
Mike
Sounds like you are moving into the associative phase. Congrats!

Mike
 

LiquidFeet

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Fitts and Posner's 3 stages of learning.png
 

geepers

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The CSIA use 5 stages for motor skills development:

Initiation - 1st attempts
Acquisition - conscious execution with rough form but inconsistent and lacks precision
Consolidation - controlled rhythmical execution of task under stable conditions but inconsistent under pressure
Refinement - Subconscious execution with consistent performance under demanding conditions but may need fine tuning
Creative Variation - perfect under demanding conditions, can spontaneously use novel combinations of movements to cope with the unexpected

(or I Am Confused Really Confused).
 

Mike King

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The CSIA use 5 stages for motor skills development:

Initiation - 1st attempts
Acquisition - conscious execution with rough form but inconsistent and lacks precision
Consolidation - controlled rhythmical execution of task under stable conditions but inconsistent under pressure
Refinement - Subconscious execution with consistent performance under demanding conditions but may need fine tuning
Creative Variation - perfect under demanding conditions, can spontaneously use novel combinations of movements to cope with the unexpected

(or I Am Confused Really Confused).
Evidently there are a few models describing the Stages of Motor Learning. The one used by PSIA-RM is Fitts and Posner which was published in 1967. Subsequently, Anne Gentile posed a two stage model:
  • Stage 1: Initial Stage
    • Goal 1: Acquire a movement pattern
    • Goal 2: Discriminate between regulatory and non-regulatory conditions
  • Stage 2: Later Stages
    • Goal: Adaptation, consistency, and economy
Nikolai Bernstein was a soviet neurophysiologist who evidently developed a model prior to both Gentile and Fitts and Posner. His model has 5 stages:
  • First Phase: Solving a motor problem, what level takes the leading role?
  • Second Phase: Developing a motor representation or strategy to approach the problem.
  • Third Phase: Identifying the most appropriate sensory corrections.
  • Fourth Phase: Corrections are handed to the background level and are engaged without conscious awareness.
  • Fifth Phase: Standardisation
  • Sixth Phase: Stabilisation
I've been looking at this area of motor learning control and theory, and think it has a great untapped application to ski instruction. I'm a bit disappointed that PSIA has done so little to look at the empirical work that examines not only how people actually learn a motor skill, but also what methods are actually most effective (as determined by actual experiments with statistics to determine if there are statistically significant differences in speed of learning, mastery, and retention). Probably deserves it's own thread.

Mike
 

geepers

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Evidently there are a few models describing the Stages of Motor Learning. The one used by PSIA-RM is Fitts and Posner which was published in 1967. Subsequently, Anne Gentile posed a two stage model:
  • Stage 1: Initial Stage
    • Goal 1: Acquire a movement pattern
    • Goal 2: Discriminate between regulatory and non-regulatory conditions
  • Stage 2: Later Stages
    • Goal: Adaptation, consistency, and economy
Nikolai Bernstein was a soviet neurophysiologist who evidently developed a model prior to both Gentile and Fitts and Posner. His model has 5 stages:
  • First Phase: Solving a motor problem, what level takes the leading role?
  • Second Phase: Developing a motor representation or strategy to approach the problem.
  • Third Phase: Identifying the most appropriate sensory corrections.
  • Fourth Phase: Corrections are handed to the background level and are engaged without conscious awareness.
  • Fifth Phase: Standardisation
  • Sixth Phase: Stabilisation
I've been looking at this area of motor learning control and theory, and think it has a great untapped application to ski instruction. I'm a bit disappointed that PSIA has done so little to look at the empirical work that examines not only how people actually learn a motor skill, but also what methods are actually most effective (as determined by actual experiments with statistics to determine if there are statistically significant differences in speed of learning, mastery, and retention). Probably deserves it's own thread.

Mike

There's probably nearly as many models as there are researchers. My experience in utilising models/grouping - mostly in business training - is that the big part of the benefit is realising not to interact with everyone in the same way. May seem self-evident however it's surprising the number of people in business who assume their crew know what they know, think the same as they do and will deal with something the same way they would.

Once people are focused on their students as individuals, the second big advantage of models is providing some sort of framework for progressing. At least it's a starting point.
 

LiquidFeet

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There's probably nearly as many models as there are researchers. .....
UC-1-ConsciousUnconsciousCompetence1.jpg


My favorite is this one. It works for motor learning as well as other types of learning.
I've been a teacher for all my adult life. This little chart matches my experience
with all the levels I've taught, from high school students, to college students, to adults,
and even to elders, all of whom are struggling to learn to do stuff that's unfamiliar to them.

This model is easy to remember because the four labels don't need further explanation.
If I were to design a test for teacher certification of any sort, this is the model I'd require candidates to memorize.

Caveat: Having to memorize a model of learning theory is very popular for teacher evaluation.
It's easy to grade because the candidates either memorize the parts accurately, or they don't.
But memorizing a model and spitting it back on a test doesn't reflect any ability to teach well.
The model is useful only if the teacher buys into its content, can remember it, and actually uses it
as a guide to good effect.

I buy into this one's content without any reservations. I've used it and taught it to my students.
 
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geepers

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UC-1-ConsciousUnconsciousCompetence1.jpg


My favorite is this one. It works for motor learning as well as other types of learning.
I've been a teacher for all my adult life. This little chart matches my experience
with all the levels I've taught, from high school students, to college students, to adults,
and even to elders, all of whom are struggling to learn to do stuff that's unfamiliar to them.

This model is easy to remember because the four labels don't need further explanation.
If I were to design a test for teacher certification of any sort, this is the model I'd require candidates to memorize.

Caveat: Having to memorize a model of learning theory is very popular for teacher evaluation.
It's easy to grade because the candidates either memorize the parts accurately, or they don't.
But memorizing a model and spitting it back on a test doesn't reflect any ability to teach well.
The model is useful only if the teacher buys into its content, can remember it, and actually uses it
as a guide to good effect.

I buy into this one's content without any reservations. I've used it and taught it to my students.

Use that one in business training as well although I find there's a lack of granularity within the CC and UC phases. So now tending to prefer IACRCv.

So far I've not found a "does everything needed" approach and found it useful to have different approaches to suit the situation and individual participants. Also found that although some models evolved in motor skills development they apply very well to training in general.
 

Mike King

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UC-1-ConsciousUnconsciousCompetence1.jpg


My favorite is this one. It works for motor learning as well as other types of learning.
I've been a teacher for all my adult life. This little chart matches my experience
with all the levels I've taught, from high school students, to college students, to adults,
and even to elders, all of whom are struggling to learn to do stuff that's unfamiliar to them.

This model is easy to remember because the four labels don't need further explanation.
If I were to design a test for teacher certification of any sort, this is the model I'd require candidates to memorize.

Caveat: Having to memorize a model of learning theory is very popular for teacher evaluation.
It's easy to grade because the candidates either memorize the parts accurately, or they don't.
But memorizing a model and spitting it back on a test doesn't reflect any ability to teach well.
The model is useful only if the teacher buys into its content, can remember it, and actually uses it
as a guide to good effect.

I buy into this one's content without any reservations. I've used it and taught it to my students.

This is useful but not really specific to how to learn a motor control skill. That's the problem that I see with the approach of PSIA and CSIA -- it is focused on education as opposed to motor control learning. While there's no doubt important factors that can come from a general approach to learning academic subjects, it also seems likely that how individuals learn a motor control skill (movement of limbs and coordination of muscles) might be somewhat more specific. Ignoring the field(s) that study this subject seems to me to be either arrogant or ignorant on the part of the professional associations. I suspect it is ignorant, although there may be an element of arrogance as well. When I suggested to a national team member that I saw a lack of connection to the academic work on motor control learning, the individual replied that they were well aware of it and incorporated it into their materials as they had people with degrees in education on staff. Well, the missing connection, in part, is not education, but the motor control area.

I just wish that PSIA would get off of the discredited theories, like multiple intelligences, and provide some stuff that is actually relevant.

End of rant.

Mike
 
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mike_m

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The Rookies are doing some three- and seven-day Japan coaching sessions this season (link below) in both Hokkaido and Nagano. These will be pretty much all inclusive (except for airfare) and less structured than the New Zealand Advanced Courses. These trips will be geared more to showing you the mountain, having fun and coaching you as you ski. Should be exciting! Contact them if interested!

Best!
Mike

Link Guided Training Rookies on tour 29 10 2019.docx
 
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mike_m

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The multi-week summer courses include everything but airfare and food (you stock your own condo). They cover transport to and from the airport, furnished condo with kitchen, lift tix, coaching, and indoor training sessions in the evening. Here's a link to the course description. The course was $4,300 U.S. dollars last year. Hope to see you next summer!

https://www.rookieacademy.com/advanced-ski-instructor-camps/
 

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