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New WC FIS Skis & Tuning?

CO Freeskier

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I’ve been on FIS GS skis for the past decade (21M Nordica Dobermans WC GS and currently Dynastar WC GS FIS) and have now bought a pair of Dynastar WC SL FIS. I’m not a racer but I’m addicted to carving and the feel of speed, G-forces, etc. To date, I’ve just skied the skis as they come tuned from the factory and have been totally happy (actually thinking the factory prep was excellent), however, during my recent purchase of the yet to be delivered SLs I came across some info suggesting that skis like these need to be tuned, especially edge angles, before skiing? Is this true? I’m mainly skiing Loveland, CO so it is not like I’m on ice much.
 

Primoz

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Thing is, there are real race skis and then there are "race" skis, even when talking about "FIS skis". I'm fairly sure most of people here don't get chance to get close to real race skis, but thing is, I have absolutely no experience with "race" skis. With real WC stuff ski come out of factory unfinished. It has desired structure, and set desired based angle done in factory based on what serviceman wrote at his "order form" (noone does base angles by hand anymore these days), but everything else is unfinished. You need to take care of sidewall, you need to take care of side edge, and of course you need to take care of base preparation. So contrary to skis you buy in store, this ski is anything but skiable once you get it out of factory.
I would say also other FIS skis are same, as they don't come out of normal production but out of race service production, but I can't say for sure, as I was never dealing with those.
 

sparty

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The retail race skis I've seen have all had reasonable edge angles from the factory, but they also all needed sidewall prep for further tuning. Given that, it usually makes sense to pull back the sidewalls and then set the side edges using your tools and procedures, to your preferences. I would also verify that the base is flat and the base bevel is where you want it, before worrying about edge angles, because if it needs changing, you'll need to get a grind anyhow.

It's also a good idea to properly wax cycle the bases. Even when you're not looking for hundredths of a second, happy bases ski better.
 
Thread Starter
TS
CO Freeskier

CO Freeskier

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Yeah, these are “retail skis”...bought them at Corbetts and Peak online.
 

QueueCT

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FWIW, I regrind to set my preferred base edge (usually from a standard 1 deg. to either 0.5 or 0.75 deg depending on the ski), edge angle at either 3 or 4 deg, again, depending. Pull the sidewall, hot box for a few cycles to saturate the base and remove any remaining burrs by hand. I drop off my skis at the local race shop with my daughters skis and take advantage of the discounted race night pricing for tunes. I also spring for binding release checks.

Note that this isn't strictly necessary ... if it's a reputable ski the bases and edges will be reasonable. But I like what I like and I'm willing to put in the effort and/or pay for it. Also, every weekend I sharpen and wax the skis before I go out. If I'm going to spring for the up front work then I'm going to take the time to maintain them as well.
 

razie

Sir Shiftsalot
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New race skis do come better prepared than recreational skis, but even so, if you want a proper race ski, the first thing to do after receiving the package is to take it to a shop, to have it tuned. Normally a 0.5 base and a 3-degree side is good enough for racing technical skis. Maybe go 0.75 / 3 if you don't actually ski hardpack (i.e. blue ice). Other criteria include how well you ski and what shape you're in...

No real need to pullback the sidewall a lot, if you don't ski ice, as long as you can polish the edge without filling the stones with plastic...

The FIS designation simply means they conform to FIS norms. The 21m doesn't sound like one, I think even FIS masters race 25m now (I think) and everyone else 30m GS skis. They used to race 23m/27m a long time ago, then 30/35m and now 30m. If you want to know the current regulations, look up "FIS ICR 2019 equipment" or something like that - you're looking for the equipment spec in the ICR. For SL the radius is not regulated, just the length and some elements of the sidecut I think - but they tend to be around 13m. If they're less than 12, it's not a real race ski, likely a detuned master's ski.

Race skis are built beefier, that's what we like about them, the "race" feel. However, they are meant for racing on ice and many rec skis are pretty close when not on ice, especially master's mini GS skis (Fischer RC comes to mind). Also, many rec skis are pretty beefy, say the Head i.Speed line, the Head Monsters etc. They're also more friendly and give you this "race" feel in many conditions, especially out west... if I were to take one pair with me, it would be the Head Monster 88s. 83s are not bad either, for the nice groomers y'all ski there... you can bend those into almost a slalom turn shape, and they'll hold on groomers, not on ice...

I would not necessarily buy new race skis if you're not racing. Used FIS skis are the best deal around, not only because they're cheaper, but they're also broken in and more predictable and nicer feel, especially if they have some edge left :eek:.
 
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4ster

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I would not necessarily buy new race skis if you're not racing. Used FIS skis are the best deal around, not only because they're cheaper, but they're also broken in and more predictable and nicer.
& usually tuned & waxed impeccably by some obsessed masters racer, parent or coach. Just make sure there’s some future life left in the edges.

8653F734-32F4-4334-87C5-259B9D83BB9B.jpeg
 

Karl B

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I have purchased two pair of Volkl WC GS skis in the past 8 years. Both had a sticker on them advising that the skis were unfinished and required tuning to the buyers specifications. The bases had no structure and the edges were square. No problem, off to the race shop I went!

Karl
 
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TS
CO Freeskier

CO Freeskier

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Maybe go 0.75 / 3 if you don't actually ski hardpack (i.e. blue ice).

This is helpful, so would you do the same angles on both a GS and SL ski? I'm anxious to see how this impacts the ski because I know it makes a huge difference...that said I've never asked a shop to tune to specific angles. On both my freeride skis (186 Legend Pros, 192 Legend Pro Rider Factory) and my race skis I've just requested no de-tuning of the tips/tails. What edge angles would you recommend for freeride sticks?

Definitely wanted a beefier ski because that's what I'm used to with my freeride and gs boards. I started out this journey years ago with a pair of '03 Fischer WC RCs which I loved, then moved up to a new version ('13?) but I think they softened the ski up over the years and, while they are a ski I'd recommend to most, it just doesn't compare to beefier feel of the GS skis I've owned. I'm 195 lbs and I felt like I'd overpower the Fischers.
 

razie

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This is helpful, so would you do the same angles on both a GS and SL ski? I'm anxious to see how this impacts the ski because I know it makes a huge difference...that said I've never asked a shop to tune to specific angles. On both my freeride skis (186 Legend Pros, 192 Legend Pro Rider Factory) and my race skis I've just requested no de-tuning of the tips/tails. What edge angles would you recommend for freeride sticks?

Definitely wanted a beefier ski because that's what I'm used to with my freeride and gs boards. I started out this journey years ago with a pair of '03 Fischer WC RCs which I loved, then moved up to a new version ('13?) but I think they softened the ski up over the years and, while they are a ski I'd recommend to most, it just doesn't compare to beefier feel of the GS skis I've owned. I'm 195 lbs and I felt like I'd overpower the Fischers.

yeah, same on SL and GS - you don't want a different feel for tech skiing. On a speed ski (downhill) it would be different, you would want a less grabby setup. If that's how you use the GS skis, to just go gung-ho at 100kph (what's that, like 2 of your mph :P), then set them to 1 base.

about de-tuning, yeah, but note that it's customary to file and round-off the tips of the GS skis for safety - you don't want them grabby at speed, but since you're not skiing ice a lot, should not be an issue...

For freerides... I would say 1 base and 2-3 edge. There's a big difference 1 to 0.5 base but not so big 3 to 2 edge... although noticeable on hardpack - for you to decide what's your normal environment, for those maybe a 2 edge is better, in the backwoods and stuff. I have all at 3 so I don't have many edge guides to get confused and have to remember what's what ;)
 

Burton

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I have a pair of FIS-spec Dynastar SLs, I think 2 years old now, so pretty much your exact ski. To be clear, they are not World Cup stock that Primoz refers to above, but rather whatever Dynastar shipped me when I ordered them--the race ski the paying public gets. I think they're loads of fun. I use these skis for racing, so I put a fair bit of care into tuning them. Before skiing them, I took them to Mike DiSantis, who runs a highly regarded tuning shop in the Boston area and was a World Cup technician, and he ran his little straight edge tool down them and the base bevels were all over the place. It was surprising.

So the skis got a stone grind before they'd seen a single run. Is this necessary for enjoying the skis outside of the course in Western conditions? I'd say no, but I can definitely feel the difference between a ski that has been sloppily tuned (including many fresh from the factory skis) and one that has had the angles carefully and consistently dialed in, and it is especially apparent in challenging, icy conditions. It's hard to describe, but its sort of like all the slop or play goes away and the ski's performance just pops up a couple notches.
 

Primoz

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With base angles thing is the more you run ski flat the more "forgiving" it should be. This means the longer and faster ski gets, more base angle it should have. Personally, I run different angles on SL then on GS skis (with 1.25 to 1.75deg for SG). SL is 0 degree flat base for me, while GS is 0.5deg. For SL you want edges to engage as fast as possible and there's no need to have "forgiving ski", as you simply don't run it flat... ever. If we are of course talking about SL ski, not SL ski for cruising around at high speed (it's not ski for that anyway). With GS you start to run ski flat on base at least a bit, especially when free skiing, and you don't want to 0 degree base there as it hooks way too fast. For my pow and skimo skis I'm on 0.75, but there it really doesn't matter much.
For side, there's no way anyone would see difference between 2 or 3 degrees. You can feel difference between 3 and 5, but only on injected snow, where 5 degrees holds better, but sharpness also lasts less, and honestly it's way overkill for anything but WC, and even on WC it's used for SL only, everything else is on 3deg. So for side just use what tool you have. I'm on 3 degrees for all skis, but 2 would be just as fine, but all my tools are either 3 or 5 degrees so I'm on 3 for all skis.
 

Swede

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Agree that 2 or 3 on the side doesn’t make much of a difference as long as the tune is good. The few Dynastars (mostly Rossignols) that have been on my ”team”, have been regular FIS race department (not race room skis) that came from a few different sources and have always been pretty crude at arrival. The nicest skis at arrival were a pair of Elan JR race skis that had been very carefully hand-prepped by some friendly, skilled person in the race department. But the norm is that they all needs to be worked on before they see any action, for racing. Depending on who I ordered via, they where somtimes prepared before I got them (either by shop in France or in our race shop ”Alpingaraget” (on request). So the shop/dealer who sells do somtimes give them a tune. For free skiing in a normal piste ... you don’t need to obsess too much. But otoh why get a Porsche GT3RS and then put on budget tires? Get ’em prepped at a race shop and see if you like it.
 
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pliny the elder

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In general race skis come better prepped than free skis, but all skis out of the wrapper benefit from tuning in my experience.
If nothing else because they aren't sharp.
Between the free skis and race skis for me it's a difference of how much time and how many wax cycles are spent on each.
Working on the race skis is great, it helps you bond with each other. A little bright mood lighting, the right music, you know what I'm saying.
Oh, yeah.

pliny the elder
 

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