New skis

[asolo]

I have got a new pair of skis (Head I.SL Rebels). I had them tuned to 1 deg/3 deg edges (no detuning tips/tails) to try and defeat the polished slopes at our local hill, Eldora (it never has any snow, but the wind is omnipresent). My previous pair was Rossi CS70 very similar ski, tuned the same.

Interestingly, the Rebels feel super aggressive. Literally, it is like staying on rails. Going into a hockey stop is a conscious effort. No more leisurely edge changes. On soft stuff it's almost scary. On semi-hard pack it is beautiful, I can lay a turn with inner hand on the snow.

I guess my dilemma now is whether I should make the edges a bit less aggressive. I am not quite sure why a very similar ski with exact same geometry did not feel as edgy. Skiing crud on these is going to be doable, but exciting (risky: miss a pile and launch). Thoughts?

 

[Philpug]

Interestingly, the Rebels feel super aggressive. Literally, it is like staying on rails. Going into a hockey stop is a conscious effort. No more leisurely edge changes. On soft stuff it's almost scary. On semi-hard pack it is beautiful, I can lay a turn with inner hand on the snow.

Yup. The ski now is doing what it is designed to do.

 

[François Pugh]

I can't recall the exact radius of the CS70, but do recall I liked it in a 160-170 cm length, except at GS speeds. I do also recall that the rebels i. SL had an 11 m turn radius, which is too short for my tastes. Are you sure they are the exact same dimensions?

 

[James]

A 1/3 should slide and smear like a butter knife. It's likely the base is not flat, a slight hanging burr, or they're edge high. I've got an fis sl tuned at 0.3/4 that hockey stops just fine, side slips etc. you do have to be careful, but that's miles from a 1/3.
I usually tune sl's at 0.7/3 and I like sliding.

 

[Jilly]

CX 80 was the GS ski.

 

[markojp]

I have got a new pair of skis (Head I.SL Rebels). I had them tuned to 1 deg/3 deg edges (no detuning tips/tails) to try and defeat the polished slopes at our local hill, Eldora (it never has any snow, but the wind is omnipresent). My previous pair was Rossi CS70 very similar ski, tuned the same.

Interestingly, the Rebels feel super aggressive. Literally, it is like staying on rails. Going into a hockey stop is a conscious effort. No more leisurely edge changes. On soft stuff it's almost scary. On semi-hard pack it is beautiful, I can lay a turn with inner hand on the snow.

I guess my dilemma now is whether I should make the edges a bit less aggressive. I am not quite sure why a very similar ski with exact same geometry did not feel as edgy. Skiing crud on these is going to be doable, but exciting (risky: miss a pile and launch). Thoughts?

Did you so anything to the factory base structure? I ask because a friend bought an iSL rd and mentioned that the ski wouldn't go sideways at all. I took his ski out for a run and it was terrifying. He'd taken them to a local shop who put a ridiculously aggressive base structure on them and ruined the perfectly good factory structure. They were flat out dangerous to ski.p0

My own pair is tuned to .75 and 3. They're like slot cars on my feet, but I can easily demo pivot slips, falling leads, hockey stops, change the radius of an arc, etc. on the factory base structure. P

 

[Chris Geib]

Did you so anything to the factory base structure? I ask because a friend bought an iSL rd and mentioned that the ski wouldn't go sideways at all. I took his ski out for a run and it was terrifying. He'd taken them to a local shop who put a ridiculously aggressive base structure on them and ruined the perfectly good factory structure. They were flat out dangerous to ski.


My own pair is tuned to .75 and 3. They're like slot cars on my feet, but I can easily demo pivot slips, falling leads, hockey stops, change the radius of an arc, etc. on the factory base structure.

To add to Markojp’s point on structure:
The structure is also imparted into the metal of the base edge and needs polished, otherwise can create the the symptoms you are feeling on some snow conditions.

A 1/3 should slide and smear like a butter knife. It's likely the base is not flat, a slight hanging burr, or they're edge high. I've got an fis sl tuned at 0.3/4 that hockey stops just fine, side slips etc. you do have to be careful, but that's miles from a 1/4.

I usually tune sl's at 0.7/3 and I like sliding.

I concur with James & Markojp: an “aggressive” base edge still allows for slipping, hockey stops, pivot slips.


Once the above pieces are checked off then:

Yup. The ski now is doing what it is designed to do.

 

[Josh Matta]

Yeah any ski tuned at 1 and 3 should easily pivot and or skid if asked

 

[raytseng]

Just ski it for a couple days first before doing more, and maybe it will detune itself / you will start finetuning yourself to it.

 

[markojp]

Just ski it for a couple days first before doing more, and maybe it will detune itself / you will start finetuning yourself to it.

A bad base structure will not detune.

 

[raytseng]

Sure, but the OP won't get his $65 back if it's just edges and not because of the base; and retune doesn't change a thing.

 

[asolo]

I took a light and a carpenters straight edge. I think I would say that the bases are ever so slightly concave. I performed the same experiment with the other pair of skis and it is not that way. This said, if concave, it is by fractions of a millimeter.

When I did tuning, I only ordered edges and wax, no base grind. I guess I need to do that. I am going to take these skis to another shop and see what they can do.

I skied another day on this tune. In semi-soft stuff it is just a lot of work changing edges. Push piles and forming moguls make things much harder than I am used to.

 

[markojp]

Sure, but the OP won't get his $65 back if it's just edges and not because of the base; and retune doesn't change a thing.

Railed or convexed skis don't re-tune. Crazy aggressive base structure won't re-tune. Hanging burrs don't go away quickly. Thankfully, these are all easy to check without wasting ski days and risking injury. Aggressive and proper edge tunes are easily skied (or changed) and don't seem to describe the symptoms the op is having, but that's all just like my opinion fwlittleiw, and most shops would sort this out free of charge if they screwed up a tune.

 

[Mike King]

@asolo, have you had the bases checked to see if they are railed?

I took a light and a carpenters straight edge. I think I would say that the bases are ever so slightly concave. I performed the same experiment with the other pair of skis and it is not that way. This said, if concave, it is by fractions of a millimeter.

When I did tuning, I only ordered edges and wax, no base grind. I guess I need to do that. I am going to take these skis to another shop and see what they can do.

I skied another day on this tune. In semi-soft stuff it is just a lot of work changing edges. Push piles and forming moguls make things much harder than I am used to.

Yeah, take them into the shop and tell them what you are feeling. I suspect the skis are railed. Where do you get your tunes? If you are heading to Summit, I recommend Precision in Frisco -- they do a pretty good job.

Mike