I worked at a shop that had an owner was under the belief that the best a ski will every ski was when it was fresh out of the wrapper and every tune past that was a compromise.
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New ski edge bevels
People do not know that they do not know.
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Well I thought it only did structure, but it may actually flatten somehow. It's unclear. Seems like it does the side edges.
You'd have to contact Reichman to see where in the US you could get it. Unless you really need something weird, I don't see extra effort in finding it worth it over a good stone grind. It may be the future, don't know. It would not surprise me if someone comes up with a special laser/stone structure that's fast either in alpine speed or xcountry. Then everyone would do it in those areas.
Edit: @Big J , I just saw your other post. There's really no reason to seek out this laser. It is not a magic bullet. Get some recs for a place near you, or a place to send the skis. It's actually quite common for well known tuner/grinders to do tuning through the mail. The best times are probably around now, if they're open. Those shops are usually quite busy early season - sept/oct/nov as all the new race skis come in.
You could get say your name in the structure with this laser machine.
I know someone who put sort of a Mountain Dew logo structure using a computer controlled stone grinder. Just for the hell of it. It was cool looking. Problem was, it was really very slow and it was on a beer league race ski.
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What makes you think it does side edges?
It is a dry system. While hand held edgers don't have lubrication, a major benefit of a robotic edger is that it has emulsion to cool and protect the ski.
There sure are a lot of excuses posted in this thread. My old Kästles came into my hands from a ski store in Ottawa with a very good tune. My Colorado made Volants came out of a Sportcheck remainder bin with a good tune, my Volkl P50 F1s and my daughters Porsche skis came from the internet with a good tune, my Fischer RC4 WC SCs came from the store with a good tune. If all those guys (the guys who provided the skis) can do it, a good tune should be standard across the board when buying a new pair of skis.
I will suggest anyone interested give this a read. Its dealing with base bevels and how to measure them.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/how-to-measure-base-bevel-angle.14768/
I gave all 10 of my family skis to a shop to tune. I bought a tuning discount card. The shop messed up every single pair by using a belt on a roller to base bevel the skis. They put a "base radius" on the skis. The grip on ice was gone. It cost me $95 each to pay SKIMD to fix them each to my specified angles. It only cost me $120 to ruin them. I measure every ski I buy and most need work, some don't, but those are the exception.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/how-to-measure-base-bevel-angle.14768/
I gave all 10 of my family skis to a shop to tune. I bought a tuning discount card. The shop messed up every single pair by using a belt on a roller to base bevel the skis. They put a "base radius" on the skis. The grip on ice was gone. It cost me $95 each to pay SKIMD to fix them each to my specified angles. It only cost me $120 to ruin them. I measure every ski I buy and most need work, some don't, but those are the exception.
If you want something done right.....
Or you could have Mt. St. Louis - Moonstone give them a stone grind; they did a good job on mine
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The Reichmann LS-1 RACE was only announced in January, it will be a while before it reaches the shops. You will still need a stone grinder to take off the old structure.
If the robotic edger uses CBN wheels like the Svecom Delta Edge uses http://www.svecomski.com/en/node/20 you can dry grind the edges with no problems, you just need good dust extraction.
If the robotic edger uses CBN wheels like the Svecom Delta Edge uses http://www.svecomski.com/en/node/20 you can dry grind the edges with no problems, you just need good dust extraction.
If you (third person) were to buy a pair of my used skis, they'd be in excellent condition and well tuned. (If they're completely skied to death, I don't sell them.) Better AND faster than out of the wrapper. I guess I'm not seeing where anyone is making excuses for manufacturers. There are many variables that can make a particular production run of a ski we all know and love ski less than optimally. Two seasons back, we did a base grind to every pair of a top selling womens ski because they just weren't flat. Speculating that they were simply trying to get skis made to sell while the iron was hot. Subsequent runs haven't been an issue. That's just one example. Anyhow....
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What a nightmare tuning story.
I think @Swiss Toni is onto something regarding the drying/preparation of the core materials for new ski construction. The stability of those materials would clearly impact the stability of the newly delivered ski.
Regarding base bevel recommendations, there really needs to be a consideration of ski width. In the old straight ski days we rarely concerned ourselves with base bevels (unless you were racing). But with today's wider shaped skis, the base bevel can be the difference between a very "touchy" ski and one that has absolutely no grip. In general, lower base bevels for skinnier skis is the typical approach, but I just found out that someone well known to most Pugs has all his skis set at 0.5* base. That takes mad skills to handle skis that are setup like that.
In the end I often wonder what causes bad tunes. Is this laziness on the part on the operator/tuner, problems with maintenance of the machines used, or just plain ignorance? I guess it's probably a combination of all of the above.
Regarding base bevel recommendations, there really needs to be a consideration of ski width. In the old straight ski days we rarely concerned ourselves with base bevels (unless you were racing). But with today's wider shaped skis, the base bevel can be the difference between a very "touchy" ski and one that has absolutely no grip. In general, lower base bevels for skinnier skis is the typical approach, but I just found out that someone well known to most Pugs has all his skis set at 0.5* base. That takes mad skills to handle skis that are setup like that.
In the end I often wonder what causes bad tunes. Is this laziness on the part on the operator/tuner, problems with maintenance of the machines used, or just plain ignorance? I guess it's probably a combination of all of the above.
Apparently your shop can be counted amongst those that can deliver a properly tuned new pair of skis too.
I personally not a fan of tuning cards...to quote The Joker, "If you are good at something, you don't do it for free", quality tunes do not come at a discounted price.
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People greatly underestimate the butchery that is often done to skis. I won't buy used skis uninspected anymore if I don't know the owner's habits. Pictures don't show it.
Meanwhile, people often balk here at paying a little more when used skis have been prepped by known very high quality shops.
Base grind won't fix severe dulling of the front and tails. "Detuning". This is more common than you'd think. I had experience with a Kastle MX83 that was essentially ruined by this. It would still carve great in big turns, but the front would never bite. Turned out the front was really detuned, with a file or many times with a diamond stone. No practical amount of base grinding would get this out.
But, if you only ski soft snow, a lot of this doesn't matter.
Meanwhile, people often balk here at paying a little more when used skis have been prepped by known very high quality shops.
Base grind won't fix severe dulling of the front and tails. "Detuning". This is more common than you'd think. I had experience with a Kastle MX83 that was essentially ruined by this. It would still carve great in big turns, but the front would never bite. Turned out the front was really detuned, with a file or many times with a diamond stone. No practical amount of base grinding would get this out.
But, if you only ski soft snow, a lot of this doesn't matter.
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SkiMD still takes off all tip protectors, bindings, and plates? I get the theory, but goodness that's a lot of labor and a lot of places to introduce refitting problems.
I am not saying I have mad skills, but I have all of my and my family skis tuned to 0.5 base bevel. I do think that is about as low as you should go for all around skiing. If you want grip on ice, it's a good number. If you want your skis to slide easily, or smear rather than grip, 1-1.5 base is better. I find 0.5-1.0 is not hugely different, but I do know a lot of people think so. I have tried different base bevels on the same ski, and didn't see big difference till below 0.5 and above 1.5. I have discussed this with SKIMD and he has told me the same thing.
What is very important is the base bevel is consistent along the length
BTW, I bought a Ski Logik ski that was un-skiable with the factory tune. It was like an on off switch, slide then instant hook up as you rolled into the edges. The base bevel varied from 0 to 4 along the length of the ski
What is very important is the base bevel is consistent along the length
BTW, I bought a Ski Logik ski that was un-skiable with the factory tune. It was like an on off switch, slide then instant hook up as you rolled into the edges. The base bevel varied from 0 to 4 along the length of the ski
SkiMD still takes off all tip protectors, bindings, and plates? I get the theory, but goodness that's a lot of labor and a lot of places to introduce refitting problems.
He has a new machine, not sure if he still does that? His prices are the same, so maybe
He has a new machine, not sure if he still does that? His prices are the same, so maybe
So long as humans touch skis, there will be errors. Good shops correct them.
I am a little late to this thread and have been reading what many have said, it has been interesting to get the different options. When I got my new skis I asked the community about new ski prep and got a lot of the of the same answers. What it came down to for me was shouldn't we give the manufacturer a chance to demonstrate the quality their name represents. I did check the base with a straight edge and it was good so I just skied them as they came from the manufacturer. Head did not give me what the edge angle was out of the box but they skied fine. It was not a racing ski so it didn't have to be extremely precise. When I did get them tuned I had them set to 1 - 3 and they skied a bit smoother but they never skied poorly.
^^^ this ^^^
