Utah New resort in Wasatch could be ready by 2021

[Tricia]

Billion Dollar Ski Resort Underway in Wasatch
Saw this news report and am a little surprised that it hasn't been posted here yet.

Interesting to see the emphasis on active military
Snip from article:

The convention center, which will be billed first, will include 100 subsidized rooms with discount rates for active duty and retired military personnel and their families.

“I think this is a great location, and we want our military people to know that this is a great place to do business, but it’s also a great place to play,” Paul Morris, Acting Executive Director of the

Military Installation Development Authority.

The Air Force has been looking for a facility like this more than a decade. It will be open to all branches of the military.

“The average soldier doesn’t get paid that much, and this will enable them to have a chance to vacation at a ski resort,” said Barnett.

Groundbreaking for that part of the project: next spring. That hotel and skilifts could be ready by the 2021 ski season, two years from now.

 

[Jim McDonald]

Damn, wonder if it's too late to re-up!

 

[Wasatchman]

Billion Dollar Ski Resort Underway in Wasatch
Saw this news report and am a little surprised that it hasn't been posted here yet.

Interesting to see the emphasis on active military
Snip from article:

The convention center, which will be billed first, will include 100 subsidized rooms with discount rates for active duty and retired military personnel and their families.

“I think this is a great location, and we want our military people to know that this is a great place to do business, but it’s also a great place to play,” Paul Morris, Acting Executive Director of the

Military Installation Development Authority.

The Air Force has been looking for a facility like this more than a decade. It will be open to all branches of the military.

“The average soldier doesn’t get paid that much, and this will enable them to have a chance to vacation at a ski resort,” said Barnett.

Groundbreaking for that part of the project: next spring. That hotel and skilifts could be ready by the 2021 ski season, two years from now.

The development has been planned for a while, although I had thought officially as Deer Valley and not some new resort.

So news to me that it's planned as new resort. My thinking is that it will defacto be an expansion of Deer Valley and that their will be some sort of reciprocal benefits, and Deer Valley will operate it. Maybe the land owner thought rather than lease land to Deer Valley for the expansion they'd make more of a go of it with direct ownership stake? It's surprising.

The plans are ambitious and estimated to take 40 years to full completion. A big issue is that area gets limited snowfall, and terrain is just okay (a good chunk is beginner terrain). I don't know how it would be viable as a separate resort. I expect it will be defacto expansion of Deer Valley if it plays out, and again, really surprised expansion won't be officially Deer Valley.

The hotel for military was trying to get off the ground in the area for at least a decade, so this incorporates that and pass discounts for military to this "new resort" with the owner getting tax benefits in return.

Still many question marks as to how much of this happens. As I mentioned, lack of snow in that area is a big hurdle as well.

 

[KingGrump]

Military Installation Development Authority.

Mega bucks.

 

[mdf]

A big issue is that area gets limited snowfall.

Limited by comparison to the Cottonwoods, or limited by most regions' standards? No idea, so asking seriously.

 

[Wasatchman]

Limited by comparison to the Cottonwoods, or limited by most regions' standards? No idea, so asking seriously.

Limited by most region's standards. Extensive snowmaking will be required.

 

[Tricia]

The development has been planned for a while, although I had thought officially as Deer Valley and not some new resort.

So news to me that it's planned as new resort. My thinking is that it will defacto be an expansion of Deer Valley and that their will be some sort of reciprocal benefits, and Deer Valley will operate it. Maybe the land owner thought rather than lease land to Deer Valley for the expansion they'd make more of a go of it with direct ownership stake? It's surprising.

The plans are ambitious and estimated to take 40 years to full completion. A big issue is that area gets limited snowfall, and terrain is just okay (a good chunk is beginner terrain). I don't know how it would be viable as a separate resort. I expect it will be defacto expansion of Deer Valley if it plays out, and again, really surprised expansion won't be officially Deer Valley.

The hotel for military was trying to get off the ground in the area for at least a decade, so this incorporates that and pass discounts for military to this "new resort" with the owner getting tax benefits in return.

Still many question marks as to how much of this happens. As I mentioned, lack of snow in that area is a big hurdle as well.

When I stumbled upon this press release the timeline surprised me.

 

[Wasatchman]

When I stumbled upon this press release the timeline surprised me.

Agree. The part about ski lifts could be ready by 2021 seems to be very aggressive and a stretch.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

A resort 2/3rds of Deer Valley with 1000ft rise lifts, on the leeward side of the Cottonwoods doesn't sound like a very good investment in the SLC/PC area.

There are too many other better options.

 

[HardDaysNight]

According to the Park Record the new resort will have 400 skiable acres within 1,000 acres of terrain. Yet the overall size of the land parcels to be developed is 5,600 acres. Seems unlikely that the village development and infrastructure could occupy the rest. The whole scheme never really smelled right, and it still doesn’t, but I can’t define exactly why.

 

[RJS]

A resort 2/3rds of Deer Valley with 1000ft rise lifts, on the leeward side of the Cottonwoods doesn't sound like a very good investment in the SLC/PC area.

There are too many other better options.

To echo what @Wasatchman said, I've known about this development but only as an expansion to Deer Valley, not as a stand-alone resort. The key here is that this is NOT being developed specifically for the skiing available on the Mayflower site. This is primarily a real estate play. The reason that you're purchasing a condo or home in this development is the access to Deer Valley. Without access to Deer Valley, this development doesn't work.

The low snowfall is certainly an issue, as others have discussed. Snowmaking will have to be extensive. In very early or late season there might just be a trail or two that will effectively allow you to connect with Deer Valley and ski back, but that's it. A good thing for this development is that Deer Valley has a relatively short season, so there won't be the same kind of pressure to get snowmaking started early or push the season out late, at least relative to resorts in other parts of the country.

Here's a question: does the Jordanelle base area at Deer Valley typically open when the resort first opens? Or does that open after the main base area? If it's the latter, than perhaps the Mayflower area will do the same? Or maybe in the very early season you'll have to take a lift from Mayflower over to Deer Valley and then download to get back?

 

[KingGrump]

Another things that is not pasting my smell test is the demographic similarities of the usual Deer Valley patrons and the clients of the Military Installation Development Authority.

 

[Wasatchman]

This Park Record article came out after my earlier posts and it does a good job explaining the situation in more depth

https://www.parkrecord.com/news/may...e-as-its-deal-with-deer-valley-remains-murky/

 

[Wasatchman]

According to the Park Record the new resort will have 400 skiable acres within 1,000 acres of terrain. Yet the overall size of the land parcels to be developed is 5,600 acres. Seems unlikely that the village development and infrastructure could occupy the rest. The whole scheme never really smelled right, and it still doesn’t, but I can’t define exactly why.

The scheme seemed logical to me until finding out it was going to operate as a separate resort.

I figured DV might even look to relocate their main base to Mayflower as it would enable far easier access for visitors (highway the entire way) rather than current access that chokes down in Park City and eventually becomes one lane road going through a residential section.

I believe @RJS is right. This is much more about real estate than it is the actual skiing. I don't get what is going on with "new resort." Presumably having lifts, etc as official Deer Valley would be even better for the value of the real estate for the developer.

Perhaps there was a breakdown in negotiations between developer (landowner) and DV that is driving this. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense why the skiing portion wouldn't officially be part of DV.

Who knows, DV and developer may eventually come to an agreement and it will officially become part of DV after all.

 

[fatbob]

Smells really fishy . And 2 years is an impossible target. Heck it seems to have taken Copper almost a full year to string a couple of lifts to run properly.

 

[Blue Streak]

The construction will probably be managed by the same outfit that built the VA hospital in Denver.
The billion dollar plan would turn into 50 billion.
Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Blue Streak]

If anything it will be a Trump branded resort.

 

[HardDaysNight]

believe @RJS ...This is much more about real estate than it is the actual skiing. I don't get what is going on with "new resort." Presumably having lifts, etc as official Deer Valley would be even better for the value of the real estate for the developer.

Yes, agree. Even further, it’s hard to see the real estate development taking off without the new terrain being part of Deer Valley. How attractive as an independent proposition would 400 acres of skiable terrain in a low snowfall zone be as an inducement to buy pricey homes or stay in a hotel stuck out in nowhere?
The whole military connection seems odd too. Since when does the military decide to participate in the development of a ski resort so that soldiers can afford a skiing holiday? I understand the tax scheme as described in the Park Record but overall it doesn’t really add up. So clearly I’m missing something.

 

[New2]

Indeed there's a lot that's unclear and sounding pretty iffy. But county development approvals are in place, and private enterprise building on Utah private land is a completely different topic than building on National Forest land in the Front Range.

While the previous stuff I'd seen indicated that Mayflower would be part of DV, it doesn't sound like it makes a lot of sense from Alterra's point of view, unless the Mayflower developers are committed to subsidizing the partnership on a long-term basis. DV already has plenty of customers (too many by some accounts), and adding the Maytag terrain isn't really going to enable any sort of further price premium. And if hefty military discounts are built into the funding structure, that makes it even less attractive to Alterra without big subsidies.

Obviously it's not going to be "finished" in 2 years, but having at least some beds ready and at least one lift spinning sounds feasible (if still aggressive). And the way the Utah vacation home industry is looking to me, at least, there's real incentive to get moving and sell real estate sooner rather than later. Because there are so many subdivisions popping up it's already looking overdue for a correction. And since, by and large, folks under 50 or so really don't look likely to be able to buy much luxury real estate on any reasonable time horizon, the clock is ticking to milk what value the developers can out of that real estate.

 

[Wasatchman]

Even getting one lift spinning in two years sounds like a colossal achievement to me. And for what? To service how many buildings? Who is going to buy a lift ticket for one lift? The lift would only exist for people staying at one of the buildings at the Mayflower location. And I can't see how it could be cost effective to get all that infrastructure in for running that lift to service what little buildings will be there in two years.

The expansion to me would make sense for DV in the context of a new base area with improved access/additional parking, opportunity for more revenue from ancillary activities, and bragging rights for a little more skiable terrain (albeit more marginal quality). But as a standalone resort (or even development) it sounds absolutely crazy.

I really wonder if DV and landowner developer just couldn't come to financial agreement, and so developer thinks they can do this on their own and using the military financing scheme to finance the development. I don't really think the military angle is all that big of an actual target for the developer, other than using MIDA as a source of cheaper financing for the development.

This is going to be interesting to follow. I still somehow wonder that if in the end DV will end up being a part of this somehow. It's just too crazy otherwise for it not too.