New Outback, 2.5 or 3.6 ?

[Tom K.]

Subaru's center clutch pack are continuous duty and is engaged all the time. Most other AWD can only send limited amount of power to the back for a limited time after front slips. As an example the last gen CRV is notorious for its horrible AWD, that can only send up to 25% of total power, and overheats quickly and leave you with FWD only.

First off, OP, the 2.5 Outback is SO slow. If you care about performance at all, 3.6 FTW.

Second, I have to say that the above post (and I mostly love your posts @jzmtl) is some serious "urban mything". The super cool near-50/50 split AWD system only comes in manual transmission Subies these days. All the autos and CVTs are FWD until otherwise needed. Thank you CAFE-driven pursuit of an extra mile per gallon on the EPA test cycle.

Also, the stuff about CRV AWD systems is getting pretty long in tooth. My wife has a 2011 Element with the same powertrain as the CR-V and it is a tiger in the snow, where we drive it all the time. No problems at all. But I still hate the car, myself, for other reasons.

These days, unless you're truly off-roading, you can hardly -- or not at all -- tell the difference between a 50/50 split AWD system and a FWD-biased system. We had the original Sienna AWD with 50/50 and it was amazing in snow. So is our current version with a FWD-biased system. Truth is, these systems react so quickly now, it's pretty hard to even tell. As an example, if I stand outside our Sienna on ice or snow, and my wife floors it, my human eye cannot tell that the front wheels spin first. It just looks like all four go to work immediately (traction control system off, obviously, for this test).

But anyway, buy the 3.6 if at all possible!

 

[scott43]

Here's a good vid on Subaru's AWD systems.

 

[peterm]

Dude in the video seems to disagree with @Tom K. 's assertion that "All the autos and CVTs are FWD until otherwise needed.". Seems to be saying it's a 60/40 split in its default state. I went looking for the official docs and found https://www.subaru-global.com/technology/performance/drivetrain_awd.html , specifically: " The active torque-split AWD system usually distributes torque 60:40 front and rear, however sensors constantly monitor the vehicle's condition in areas such as changes in grip of the front and rear tyres or vehicle speed."

 

[Snowfan]

Serious car nut here with 17 Outback. We live in the flats of the Texas panhandle and the 2.5 is sufficient. It has also been no problem to stay at 75 in the mountains of Colorado. I get a kick out of maxxing my mpg and easily average 30+ on a 1000 miler to the hills with box on top. Yes, the 6 is quieter, smoother and stronger but at 3K more expensive and 4 mpg less, for us, the 2.5 fits. 25K miles and still happy.

Next time, if not pinching pennies, I'll get a Limited or Touring with a 6...of course. I was pinching pennies this time. All the better to spend on other fun stuff. The 2.5 is a "value" or "budget" purchase and it has worked great for us.

For accurate fuel mileage info check out http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/outback

The AWD systems differ some on CVT vs Manual transmission cars. The CVT cars are front wheel drive biased but run about 60f 40r full time. I'll find the link if needed. Manuals 50 50.

 

[scott43]

Dude in the video seems to disagree with @Tom K. 's assertion that "All the autos and CVTs are FWD until otherwise needed.". Seems to be saying it's a 60/40 split in its default state. I went looking for the official docs and found https://www.subaru-global.com/technology/performance/drivetrain_awd.html , specifically: " The active torque-split AWD system usually distributes torque 60:40 front and rear, however sensors constantly monitor the vehicle's condition in areas such as changes in grip of the front and rear tyres or vehicle speed."

Well, Tom was saying it's not 50/50 all the time which is true. And he makes a good point about the newer generation AWD control units..they're very fast. The average person probably wouldn't notice it (I mean, think about the average driver!!) and really it's about making sure people don't get stuck. But for me, I like the predictability. Going from 100% FWD to possibly 100% RWD then back again while hanging it out at 45 degrees at 50mph makes me nervous! Plus you have all the vehicle dynamic controls and traction controls..for the average person, you're pretty safe with any of the modern AWD systems.

 

[Monique]

I bought a 2018 Outback Touring with the 3.6 in November, upgrading from a 2008 Outback XT (2.5L Turbo). The 3.6 is almost comparable, although it sounds much less impressive when accelerating. I was able to push the 2008 harder to accelerate, but I suspect that's because I would drop into 3rd gear and I was only flooring the new car without using the paddles. Nevertheless, I found myself hitting 100mph passing someone in Utah somewhere (oops). I hate passing in the oncoming lane, so when I do it, I get from point A to B as fast as I can.

Anyway, I personally would not be happy with less power. Do I use it all the time? No. But when I want it, it's there.

The killer features on my Outback (probably I'm only impressed because of how old my old car was):

Adaptive cruise control
Heated steering wheel

Seriously, between no longer having to manage my transmission and the adaptive cruise control, driving in traffic has become soooo much less stressful. I just chill and listen to my podcasts or music. The car handles the yo-yoing all by itself as long as we don't come to a complete stop. It's amazing.

The awesomeness of the heated steering wheel is, I believe, self explanatory.

Can I ask why, what makes it special or different? They seem to be liitle joy to drive, are overpriced in the 3.6 and have less cargo space than Mia size SUVs, often requiring a top box. Obviously I am considering buying one, but the longer the thread goes on the less appealing they seem. Is there some special sauce in the AWD system that makes them more capable than other AWD variants. Or is it just the private parking st Snowbird that makes them so desirable?

I find it more pleasant than I expected - but this could be because I've fully committed to being a "get from point A to B" driver rather than a pleasure driver.

For me, I had a requirements combination that literally only the Outback could match:
* Narrow enough to comfortably park in Boulder parking
* Low enough to fit into the parking garage where I work (which is lower than a standard garage)
* Able to carry skis without impinging on the back seat, where the dogs sit
* Comfortable back seat for passengers
* At least as much clearance as my old Outback
* AWD/4WD

Those top four are tough, but with an extremely low profile roof box, I was able to make the Outback work. The math didn't work for anything else. On the drive back from getting the roof box, we drove to the parking garage. I hopped out while my husband slowly drove in, and held my breath. Maybe an inch of clearance. Anything else would have been too tall, and for the most part too wide.

I thought about holding out for the 2019, but I suspect it will be wider and taller per current trends. Also, if I had to drive uphill in traffic on I-70 one more time in my old car, I was going to lose my shit.

 

[Carl Kuck]

Serious car nut here with 17 Outback. We live in the flats of the Texas panhandle and the 2.5 is sufficient. It has also been no problem to stay at 75 in the mountains of Colorado. I get a kick out of maxxing my mpg and easily average 30+ on a 1000 miler to the hills with box on top. Yes, the 6 is quieter, smoother and stronger but at 3K more expensive and 4 mpg less, for us, the 2.5 fits. 25K miles and still happy...

Just got back from a week in Utah, 30.2 MPG on the way up and 31.2 MPG on the way back, '17 OBW with 2.5 and CVT, 6 pair skis, two persons worth of boots, gear, and clothing, no roof box (everything inside). And it burns regular instead of premium like my old '08 3.0R (20+ cents per gallon higher in CA). We filled in Las Vegas, still had half a tank left by the time we got to San Diego (250-ish miles later). A 500-mile tank might not be unreasonable. I don't drive my cargo hauler for fun, that's why I have a Miata (and had a '67 911S track car before that... <grin>)

 

[scott43]

The awesomeness of the heated steering wheel is, I believe, self explanatory.

Flat money...

 

[Monique]

Flat money...

I think I can intuit what you mean, but that term must mean something different than what Google says ..?

 

[Started at 53]

I’ll take a close look at the Ascent when it comes out

 

[scott43]

I think I can intuit what you mean, but that term must mean something different than what Google says ..?

Best thing ever invented..money in the bank..can't lose. Give me heated steering wheel over heated seats any day!!

 

[Fishbowl]

We’ve owned back to back Dodge Journeys for the last several years. They proved perfect for a family with two teens and a large dog that pack up and head to the mountains every weekend. It’s an odd vehicle, somehow stuck between a midsize SUV and a caravan, but the huge amount of usable cargo space and a powerful V6 has never left us wanting. Our only issue was lack of traction in winter conditions. Not bad for a FWD, but several times a year we had to use either chains or socks to get up to the ski resorts. On toad trips to the Cottonwoods we often had to use the ski bus on 4x4 restriction days. That inconvenience alone has left us with the desire for the AWD capabilities of a Subaru.

So.....at the end of last week, with our latest Journey closing in on 90,000 miles, I took it in to the local shop for new brake pads. The bad news was that we would need to spend close to $3000 for brakes, rotors, struts and tires. So, we decided it was a good time for an upgrade.

Now in our fifties, and with the eldest in college, we have been looking to downsize our lives in readiness for cruising into the retirement years. Part of that plan included getting rid of the man van and replacing it with something smaller, more Ecco friendly and winter travel capable. The 2.5 Outback fit the bill until I discovered it also came with a more powerful engine. Hence this thread. Suddenly the engine was looking a little underpowered, less room in the back for Rex the German Shepherd, and with one teen girl still at home, we would still need to get a top box.

With no offense to the Outback. We spent the Saturday between the Subaru and Dodge dealer and ended up buying a 2018 Dodge Journey. But this time in AWD. For $25,000 it was a tough deal to beat with the V6, AWD and all the cargo space we still need, without requiring a top box.

So, I guess this is a long way around of thanking you all for your advice and experience. We still want the Outback, but maybe the timing in our lives was off by a few years.

 

[Jim Kenney]

This is the automotive equivalent of the EpicSki TCC ski trip thread! You got us all spun up about the Outback, hemmed and hawed about 2.5 vs. 3.6, and then after 50 replies went for the Journey!




Just kidding. Have fun with new vehicle, may it take you on many great and safe Journeys...to the Outback

 

[Fishbowl]

This is the automotive equivalent of the EpicSki TCC ski trip thread! You got us all spun up about the Outback, hemmed and hawed about 2.5 vs. 3.6, and then after 50 replies went for the Journey!




Just kidding. Have fun with new vehicle, may it take you on many great and safe Journeys...to the Outback

I know, sorry. My long explanation was an attempt at an apology. But, without the thread, I probably would have bought the 2.5 and then wished for more power and space later. So, for me, the thread was excellent

 

[trailtrimmer]

Do you like replacing head gaskets, or prefer not to?

 

[Monique]

I had multiple posts on Epic and Pugski asking about cars, and eventually ended up right where I started - with an Outback. At least yours only took 3 pages

 

[Tom K.]

This is the automotive equivalent of the EpicSki TCC ski trip thread! You got us all spun up about the Outback, hemmed and hawed about 2.5 vs. 3.6, and then after 50 replies went for the Journey!

Still fun.

Could only have been better if he'd decided to go with the upcoming Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio!

 

[Snowfan]

We’ve owned back to back Dodge Journeys for the last several years. They proved perfect for a family with two teens and a large dog that pack up and head to the mountains every weekend. It’s an odd vehicle, somehow stuck between a midsize SUV and a caravan, but the huge amount of usable cargo space and a powerful V6 has never left us wanting. Our only issue was lack of traction in winter conditions. Not bad for a FWD, but several times a year we had to use either chains or socks to get up to the ski resorts. On toad trips to the Cottonwoods we often had to use the ski bus on 4x4 restriction days. That inconvenience alone has left us with the desire for the AWD capabilities of a Subaru.

So.....at the end of last week, with our latest Journey closing in on 90,000 miles, I took it in to the local shop for new brake pads. The bad news was that we would need to spend close to $3000 for brakes, rotors, struts and tires. So, we decided it was a good time for an upgrade.

Now in our fifties, and with the eldest in college, we have been looking to downsize our lives in readiness for cruising into the retirement years. Part of that plan included getting rid of the man van and replacing it with something smaller, more Ecco friendly and winter travel capable. The 2.5 Outback fit the bill until I discovered it also came with a more powerful engine. Hence this thread. Suddenly the engine was looking a little underpowered, less room in the back for Rex the German Shepherd, and with one teen girl still at home, we would still need to get a top box.

With no offense to the Outback. We spent the Saturday between the Subaru and Dodge dealer and ended up buying a 2018 Dodge Journey. But this time in AWD. For $25,000 it was a tough deal to beat with the V6, AWD and all the cargo space we still need, without requiring a top box.

So, I guess this is a long way around of thanking you all for your advice and experience. We still want the Outback, but maybe the timing in our lives was off by a few years.


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You got a good one with +- 10K off MSRP. Well done and enjoy the Dodge while FCA works along overcoming the Fix It Again Tony bologna.

 

[Fishbowl]

Thanks for the targeted marketing, I guess Big Brother is listening in after all, but sorry, you are a day too late

 

[LegacyGT]

The base engine in the Outback is very weak, but you know what? Most people are fine with it. Performance is not exciting but fuel economy is excellent for such a large car.