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New gear for returning skier (beware: long post)

Slim

Making fresh tracks
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Not always true, Some of the stiffer (non race specific) boots for next season are made with the new plastics like Grilamid. There are boots that are low and high volume based upon foot shape some will use the design to create room and others use it to make the boot more efficient. YMMV.

Mmm, I think you misunderstood me, I was talking about having two pairs of LINERS for the same pair of boots. You seem to be talking about shells. Or did I misunderstand you? If so, can you clarify?

What I was talking about was owning one pair of boot shells, with two pairs of liners:

If the liner is thicker it will create a snugger fit, and often be stiffer (Intution Prowrap for example) and warmer. At the same time a thinner liner in the same shell will be roomier (nice for hiking), and more flexible (especially if it’s a dedicated touring liner). With similar foams, a thinner liner is lighter and less warm, both beneficial for touring.
 

James

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The big question for the op obviously is which boots? And is he open to multiple boots?

Coming back to skiing from 25yrs ago in alpine and jumping into touring boots seems odd. I'd think I'd go with an AT boot. Like the Lange XT category. The new Fischer looks quite nice. For the trip he's going to want some rubber on the bottom.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Team Gathermeister
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Well, you pick a broad category of boots. After that the criteria are fit, fit, and fit. Right? Seems like a bad idea to be mentioning specific models except as examples of broad types. In short, get a boot fitter and tell him or her what you're up to.
 
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redwoodsrp

redwoodsrp

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Cool! But of course you are buying the gear for many years, not this one trip.

Check Tyrolia frame bindings too.

Standheight of frame bindings is not a really the big issue. Racers use riser plates all the time, doesn’t slow them down. I have frame bindings and when I compared a friends ski of similar width and length with Look Pivots (lowest bindings avaible) I could feel the difference, but on firm snow there is probably more of a benefit than a drawback.
I also have a friend who has had the same pair of skis for 14 years, and skis them in the resort and on tours in the alps, with Fritschi Diamir bindings. Has done so happily for alll those yers and he is a decent skier.

The drawback of frame bindings is more in climbing efficiency: With each step you are lifting the entire frame and binding up and down. The other drawback in efficiency is that the pivot point is far below your foot, like walking on platform shoes. The final drawback might be that the pivot point is usually further out front than on tech bindings, but this varies by binding.

Then there is a potential drawback in downhill mode, in that there is more potential for play between boot and ski. This depends a lot on the specific binding, and on how bothered you are by that. I have no issues, as mentioned, I didn’t notice a more direct connection with the Pivots.


If you are considering holding out for the new Salomon SHift binding, be aware it might not fit the more rockered soles of some AT boots. The Warden MNC doesn’t.

If you are considering any combo of touring boots and bindings, please read this study:

https://digital.lib.washington.edu/researchworks/handle/1773/38177

And here you can find a blog discussion with the author, where he clarifies and details a lot:

https://www.wildsnow.com/21152/ski-binding-release-avalanche-safety/


PS Mods, should this not go in hardgoods?
Oookay ... this is really useful stuff; I am on a very steep learning curve here - love it. Much appreciated! :golfclap: Who'd have thought there are now PhDs on ski bindings; the world has come a long way indeed since I last looked into ski equipment.

The climbing efficiency disadvantages of the frame binding are quite evident the way you lay it out; but I don't think that would present much of a problem for me at this stage since (a) the daily ascents I will be making on this trip won't be particularly challenging, and (b) my total lack of skinning technique and experience makes it unlikely that I would take good advantage of highly efficient / lightweight equipment anyway.

What would concern me much more would be play between boot and ski; but you don't seem to have found that to be a problem compared to the connection you get with Look Pivots (which gives me a useful reference point as I have skied with Look Nevadas most of my life). The downhill performance is certainly a far higher priority for me than uphill efficiency; and as you quite rightly noted, I'm buying gear for many years, not just one trip. Since I don't even know at this stage whether the touring trip will be a one-off, never to be repeated exercise, or whether I'll get hooked on AT, it seem more sensible to focus on the downhill performance aspects at this stage. I may well end up buying essentially an alpine rig (albeit with hybrid boots) and rent touring skis/bindings for this trip.
 
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redwoodsrp

redwoodsrp

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Well frame bindings are closest to alpine in downhill performance. Stand height- yeah there's plenty of skis with plates and risers. In general, racing skis and carving skis will have plates or risers. Wider skis no. The overlap is a gray area and some of the lack of plates on wider skis I think is saving weight, money, and just tradition. Though for moguls You don't really want height I would think.

The problem with the whole experiment is your coming from straight skis to shaped, and want to go into touring stuff. An egg laying sheep indeed.

I can't give you specific advice on the touring stuff but I've seen the situation from a distance. In general, there are two camps. The light to superlight, who skew everything to the uphill speed, and those who really care more about the down. Of course there's a middle.
But it can get a little religious like in fervor.
I would stay away from the really light boots and skis and bindings. Downhill performance can be total crap. Doesn't look like the uphill on your trip is all that much or lengthy that you should skew uphill.
Skiing has gotten a whole lot more fun. Once you adjust and learn the new equipment, you may not just stay in a narrow corridor making hundreds of short turns.

Your'e absolutely right with your characterisation of my conundrum: going from 1980's straight skis to shaped Freeriders and then some touring thrown into the mix for good measure... complex and messy choices - but you get that on the big jobs ogsmile

I agree that going light or super light to maximise up uphill performance would be absolutely the wrong track for me at this stage. Too little mass can't be that useful for downhill performance, whether on or off-piste; ski design may have changed a whole heap over the past 25 year, but I dont think the underlying physics have.
 
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redwoodsrp

redwoodsrp

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The big question for the op obviously is which boots? And is he open to multiple boots?

Coming back to skiing from 25yrs ago in alpine and jumping into touring boots seems odd. I'd think I'd go with an AT boot. Like the Lange XT category. The new Fischer looks quite nice. For the trip he's going to want some rubber on the bottom.
No, I'm not contemplating a pure touring boot; my understanding is that they do not fit into alpine bindings and that would not suit my purposes. What I thougt might be useful is a hybrid boot like Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD, or Scarpa Freedom RS, or Nordica Strider, or Salomon QST Pro, i.e. something which for a reasonably light weight skier like me works well for alpine stuff, but can be used with tech bindings.

And at this stage, I wouldn't consider buying multiple pairs of boots. See how I like skinning up mountains first; if i happen to get hooked on that, I can always specialise.
 

James

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Ideally you want something like this Soloman binding. Maybe you could get in in Switzerland. It's not due out till next year. You also want to make sure your boot will be compatible with the new walk formats for bindings. Gripwalk I think it is. Allows a different sole to the boot than just the hard plastic of Alpine boots to work in the binding.

https://www.pugski.com/threads/2019-salomon-shift-mnc-binding.8126/#post-195081
 

Smear

Getting off the lift
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Hi all. I have some Newbie questions from an old returning skier. After more than 25 years almost total absence from the slopes, my feet have got the itch again. I'm planning a skiing holiday (10 days alpine in Switzerland and 7 days ski touring in Lyngenfjord, Norway) and I need new gear (skis, bindings, boots, poles, the works). Unfortunately, I am several generations out of date as far as ski design and technology is concerned, haven't got a clue how to evaluate and narrow down my options and am hoping that you guys and gals can lend a helping hand.

Some personal stats: male, age 61, 173cm (5'7”), 67kg (147lbs?), physically active, good fitness level. Used to be an expert skier with a rock-solid, but very, very old fashioned technique/style (think 1960s and seventies: feet locked together, strong separation of upper and lower body, active poles, lots of loading and unloading of skis etc).

Thanks for the welcome ogsmile Unfortunately, I don't really have a "home mountain" where I'll do most of my skiing (I guess if I had one, I wouldn't ever have given up skiing for so long ...) I've lived in New Zealand for the past 30 years, and I'm several hours drive away from the good NZ ski areas. There is a very small field (Rainbow) about 1.5 hours drive away where I'll probably ski a few days a year; the skiing there will be mixed, a bit on the one groomed run, a bit in the crud to the side of it, a bit in a couple of small back-country bowls. It's all not very steep, the snow - if there is any - tends to be on the soft and warm side.

Having done two ten day ski touring trips in the lyngen alps and spent 3 weeks on the NZ club fields, and being an exact match to your weight and height, I sort of feel obliged to reply.

I think your plan of a 90-100 mm waist ski that's not super light (regular not touring ski is ok, kore seems like a nice package) combined with a burly tech (pin/dynafit) binding is a good match for what you will need in Lyngen and at the clubfields later. Boots are more complicated. My AT-boots fit well. thigh and reasonably comfortable but I still hate skiing in them. Hope you find some boots that you like. In addition to fit pay attention to how they feel like when flexing, progressiveness and support for the calf. AT-boots sometimes takes shortcuts there.

If you are doing just one mountain a day (1000-1400m) then there is no need for super lightweight gear for the Lyngen trip. There is typically very little approach and distance that needs to be covered. Mostly walking straight uphill for the whole trip and then down. Having never skinned before you will use quite a bit more energy than experienced skinners and probably get quite sore in some stabilizing musculature around the hips ;)

It's all not very steep, the snow - if there is any - tends to be on the soft and warm side.

You don't need snow at the south island, you can just ski on a light sprinkle of dust and rime on the tussac.

Before my NZ trip I had never met "old people" enjoying the "freeride culture". Midweek at the club fields there were tons of them, retired and enjoying skiing unlimited amounts of untracked snow without any crowds. I guess that will be you in 10 years from now. I would love to go there again. Can't be that far for you to drive to Broken River, Craigeburn or Temple Basin?
 

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