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New article from SkiRacing.com regarding Project 26

QueueCT

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Are the gloves starting to come off a bit? Nice to see them provide a more critical analysis regarding selection criteria and healthy skepticism regarding USST's approach. Glad to see Edie's take on this.

"At age 24 McLaughlin is “too old” to be considered under US Ski Team criteria (which he had no way to achieve domestically), but he is being “worked with,” and offered “full access.” First, what do those terms mean and what exactly do they include? Second, why is he not simply on the national team, when team status would give him access to the top equipment and preparation he needs to have the best, fairest chance at success? It would also send a positive encouraging message to kids. The average age of the World Cup first seed is 29. Why not let kids envision a future in the sport past age 17, and fan that flame with the brass ring of real opportunity? Setting impossible age-based standards snuffs out the spark before it can even ignite."​

Work With Me: Project 26 Could Use Some Project 22

 

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Hard to have much hope for the near future with the current leadership and their “vision” for creating a competitive team
 

Muleski

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Edie Thys Morgan wrote this and posted it on her blog, RacerX.com, about a week ago. As she usually does, she nailed it. We’ve had a lot of Brian McLaughlin conversation on here over the past couple of months. Edie is quite close to his situation.

I’d encourage any race fans and particularly ant race parents to follow her blog. She’s right in the middle of it as a race parent. One with a ton of experience. This is good "stuff." She started as a parent hoping that this could be a lit more low key for a few years. Nope. Her kids are right in the mix. Had to be to keep pace.

Thanks to her for writing it, and to skiracing.com for putting it up.

And as I have mentioned “more than once”, Brian should be a member of the USST. 100% agreement there. However, the USST, I understand, ties themselves up in knots over making that kind of decision, even in 2018, after all of the lessons that one would think had been learned in the past. The issue is likely "But what do we do with......, and........, and......." They didn't make criteria, and they are going to get WC starts, so........SO foolish.

The comments about how the Norwegians would handle him....spot on. Thank you NCAA. Thank you American money.

Edie makes many great points. One, if you are starting on the World Cup, you should be a member of the USST. The BS about support, and access, etc. gets very old. Has for years. There is a big difference in how you are perceived, and how you view yourself, if you are actually ON the team versus being at an event in a team suit and being "supported."

Good read!
 

Average Joe

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Truly shocking.
Edie does a nice job dressing up quotes from those who are rightly enraged at the entire operation. It’s a national embarrassment.
The Brian McLaughlin travesty is just the tip of the iceberg. When we’ve had Noram champs with 6 FIS points make World Cup starts and no USST coach can be bothered to scrape their boots at the start you know you have an organization that is severly disfunctional.
 

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.......When we’ve had Noram champs with 6 FIS points make World Cup starts and no USST coach can be bothered to scrape their boots at the start you know you have an organization that is severly disfunctional.

From an outsiders perspective, it seems there is an amazing level of arrogance from those within the USST ranks. I could be wrong, but that is the perception I am getting
 

Average Joe

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I'm not sure about that. Clearly there are many issues. I'm sure most are well meaning, good people.
Their collective methods and practices are the problem.
 

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It’s an organization for a ski racing team

Ski racing is about results

Show me the organizations positive results

Come on, how can anyone with common sense think that the USST is doing a good job?
 

S.H.

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It’s an organization for a ski racing team

Ski racing is about results

Show me the organizations positive results
1) USSS is the organization. There's more to it than alpine racing.
2) it's fairly easy to point to positive results in 2018:

In 2018:
- Mikaela Shiffrin won the World Cup overall title for the second year in a row
- Shiffrin won the SL globe for the 5th time
- Shiffrin won 2 medals (1 gold) at the Olympics (3 career OWG medals, 2 gold)
- Lindsey Vonn won a medal at the Olympics (7 career OWG medals)
- 7 women in top 30 WCSL in DH
- First ever XC OWG gold medal
- 7 snowboarding OWG medals
- 3 freestyle skiing OWG medals

Come on, how can anyone with common sense think that the USST is doing a good job?

Different question, isn't it? Development and planning for the future is a different thing than just looking for results. Like it or not, Mikaela Shiffrin is part of the USST. And on her own, she had enough accomplishments to merit a fantastic season for the USST, if "results" is your only criterion.
 

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1) USSS is the organization. There's more to it than alpine racing.
2) it's fairly easy to point to positive results in 2018:

In 2018:
- Mikaela Shiffrin won the World Cup overall title for the second year in a row
- Shiffrin won the SL globe for the 5th time
- Shiffrin won 2 medals (1 gold) at the Olympics (3 career OWG medals, 2 gold)
- Lindsey Vonn won a medal at the Olympics (7 career OWG medals)
- 7 women in top 30 WCSL in DH
- First ever XC OWG gold medal
- 7 snowboarding OWG medals
- 3 freestyle skiing OWG medals



Different question, isn't it? Development and planning for the future is a different thing than just looking for results. Like it or not, Mikaela Shiffrin is part of the USST. And on her own, she had enough accomplishments to merit a fantastic season for the USST, if "results" is your only criterion.

MS and LV did have good season, and are on the team. Are you going to say that USST is responsible for their 2017-18 accomplishments? Did USST develop MS and LV? Last I hear MS’s mom did the developing.

As for other disciplines, I agree..... I think this discussion on THIS alpine centric ski forum is about alpine disciplines. Maybe I am mistaken, but I am going to ASSUME this premise.

So, tell me again how successful the and how many podiums and Olympic medals USST Men’s ALPINE team won in 2017-2018.

I won’t go pour myself a cup of coffee to wait as I don’t think it will take you long to compile the list.

Insert <Tapping fingers waiting for the list> emoji
 

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@S.H.

And to your second comment about development..... The USST Alpine development report card is in, tell me about all the young WC Level skiers we have in both men’s and women’s? To use a golf analogy, LV is on about the 17th green of her career, MS is hardly a young WC skier as she has been around for a long time. So show me how there has not been a massive VOID in the USST development of ALPINE skiers in the recent past?

Sorry to pick on you, but you raised your head above the parapet
 

S.H.

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@S.H.

And to your second comment about development..... The USST Alpine development report card is in, tell me about all the young WC Level skiers we have in both men’s and women’s? To use a golf analogy, LV is on about the 17th green of her career, MS is hardly a young WC skier as she has been around for a long time. So show me how there has not been a massive VOID in the USST development of ALPINE skiers in the recent past?

Sorry to pick on you, but you raised your head above the parapet
On your overall point, I agree with you. USSS has mismanaged the alpine program. However, your criterion of "show me positive results" is easy to meet. Come up with better criteria, or USSS and USST will point to these accomplishments and say "what do you mean?" Come up with better criteria.

MS and LV are great. 7 women in the top-30 WCSL is phenomenal.

Questions for you:
If USST is not responsible for athletes' results, who is? What would it take for USST to be responsible for somebody's results in your view?

On MS:
MS is 23. She is young. Have a conversation with her away from a camera or a microphone. It will tell you a lot.

Eileen Shiffrin has a huge part to say about the direction of her daughter's career, but she certainly is not solely responsible for executing it. USST has ponied up the resources ($$ and talent) to allow MS to develop and grow.

USST will say that allowing ES into the USST structure is USST being flexible to maximize the potential of their athletes. ES is a USST coach. So ... USST is DIRECTLY involved in her success. Now, is this the best way? I would say no, but there's no real way of knowing. MS has spent her entire FIS career developing under the umbrella of USST (with money, PTs, coaching, training space, etc.). To attribute her success to anyone else (besides her own talent, etc.) is hard to do.

On World Cup:
No Americans have really stepped in with birth dates after ~1993 except MS. Is that the fault of USST? Certainly some of it, but "blame" also has to go to clubs, coaching, and parents. Parents and coaches at the club level really drive development priorities for upcoming athletes. Some of that is shaped by USST, but not all.

Tech on both the men's and women's side are pretty rough. There are three men in the top 30 WCSL in GS, none in SL. On the women's side, MS only in GS, and MS and Resi in SL.

On the speed side, the women are doing great in DH, less so in SG. Men have 2 in the WCSL top 30 in DH, but that's with injuries to Nyman and Ganong. The younger crew have to make a move soon. In SG, it's worse.

On upcoming athletes:
On the men's side, all the eggs seem to be in the River Radamus basket. His domestic and junior international results point towards him being a solid WC skier in the near future. But until it happens, we won't know. He is the quintessential USSS development product. He even attended the TEAM Academy. There is also a ton of American talent in the junior ranks. Look at recent junior international competitions/results.

On the women's side, USA also have a ton of talent in the junior ranks. International success. It's about developing that talent to WC-level. And given the age-driven criteria, I'd argue that for women, that's more on club programs than USST.
 
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@S.H.

I have a hypothetical question for you.

IF USST ~Alpine was a business corporation that answered to an owner or stockholders, would the CEO’s/“power-that-be’s” job be in jeopardy based on his?USST’s performance?

And please no answers to the board stuff, from everything I hear the BOD is disengaged and does not care.

This is a simple and easy to answer hypothetical.

It is ONLY a yes or no.

????

Another hypothetical, IF the USST~Alpine performance was based on skiing criteria, would USST~Alpine be on the WC, Europa, or NOR AM circuit?

Just trying to put things in perspective.

MS, like LV and Bode are freaks of nature, they would have been successful no matter what. Show me some current results (especially men’s) of someone who has been nurtured and their skills have been enhanced by their USST development.

Yes I am bashing USST~Alpine a bit, but hard to not at the moment. So I will give a caveat, the women’s speed team is coming along nicely, yes the men have had some injuries. But were men’s injuries to guys that were on the cusp of becoming WC podium skiers?

Forget this age stuff, if a skier is fast, punch their ticket and give them a team slot. From those that seem to know, this kid left off the team due to the wrong birth year is a joke.

From a novice perspective, how can a country with the resources (mountains and money) be so abysmal on the WC ski map? Chicken or Egg? In the Chicken or Egg comment I am referring to results and money, which come first? I get that skiing is a niche sport in our country, but there are tremendous opportunities to raise money, but from everything I read and hear, only a fool would throw money at USST with the current leadership.

You have Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg, Larry Elliason (Oracle) to name three who like/love skiing. Funding USST is a drop in the bucket to those folks. And there is a big upside, imagine the Oracle ski team? Larry has dropped big big money on sporting endeavors in the past (America’s Cup Sailing <talk about a small niche sport>and WTA/ATP tennis in Indian Wells). But the bottom line, those are smart guys who are looking at results and return on investment. Both of which USST~Alpine have little to show recently.
 

S.H.

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@S.H.

I have a hypothetical question for you.

IF USST ~Alpine was a business corporation that answered to an owner or stockholders, would the CEO’s/“power-that-be’s” job be in jeopardy based on his?USST’s performance?

And please no answers to the board stuff, from everything I hear the BOD is disengaged and does not care.

This is a simple and easy to answer hypothetical.

It is ONLY a yes or no.

????

Probably. Depends on the priorities of the board/stockholders. Is it "winning"? If so, no. Is it "sustainable growth"? If so, yes, for sure.

Another hypothetical, IF the USST~Alpine performance was based on skiing criteria, would USST~Alpine be on the WC, Europa, or NOR AM circuit?

Just trying to put things in perspective.

WC. 6th in the Nation's Cup this year. That's not bad, really. Behind AUT, SUI, ITA, NOR, and FRA. Which is respectable, IMO.

NOR is in a spot where they have three "generational" talents, simultaneously, with Svindal, Jansrud, and Kristoffersen. That's not normal. They have had also strong results from others, particularly Haugen.

MS, like LV and Bode are freaks of nature, they would have been successful no matter what. Show me some current results (especially men’s) of someone who has been nurtured and their skills have been enhanced by their USST development.

Yes I am bashing USST~Alpine a bit, but hard to not at the moment. So I will give a caveat, the women’s speed team is coming along nicely, yes the men have had some injuries. But were men’s injuries to guys that were on the cusp of becoming WC podium skiers?

The entire men's and women's speed teams fit that description. RCS, on the men's side, has been on the USST for years now, and you saw his big move in the second run of GS at the OWG and a top-10 at Kransjka Gora towards the end of the year, as he comes off a series of injuries.

Hard to say Vonn's progression as a racer wasn't helped along by USST. Very easy to point to Ligety as somebody who has made it big while being developed on the USST - the GS dominance didn't start early - he was a SL skier to start his WC career.

Nyman and Ganong, the two who I mentioned as injuries who matter, are both multiple world cup winners.

Forget this age stuff, if a skier is fast, punch their ticket and give them a team slot. From those that seem to know, this kid left off the team due to the wrong birth year is a joke.
it is.

From a novice perspective, how can a country with the resources (mountains and money) be so abysmal on the WC ski map? Chicken or Egg? In the Chicken or Egg comment I am referring to results and money, which come first? I get that skiing is a niche sport in our country, but there are tremendous opportunities to raise money, but from everything I read and hear, only a fool would throw money at USST with the current leadership.
Where is the line between "middling" and "abysmal", in your view? Based on what?

You have Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg, Larry Elliason (Oracle) to name three who like/love skiing. Funding USST is a drop in the bucket to those folks. And there is a big upside, imagine the Oracle ski team? Larry has dropped big big money on sporting endeavors in the past (America’s Cup Sailing <talk about a small niche sport>and WTA/ATP tennis in Indian Wells). But the bottom line, those are smart guys who are looking at results and return on investment. Both of which USST~Alpine have little to show recently.
The problem is, there is a lot to show. You just want to not count the people who "would have been successful anyway". That's like saying the Warriors aren't that good if you don't count Curry, Durant, and Thompson. Well yeah. But they're there, you know.

Cavs aren't a good team without LeBron. That's true. But LeBron is on the team, and the Cavs won the east.

And the USST had a decent year. Maybe we'd like the results to be more balanced, but it wasn't a disaster on the WC. The question is what is going to happen in the future? Is there anyone up and coming? We'll see. I think the USST is going to struggle too.

I think a lot needs to be done to fix the USST. Focusing on "results" broadly isn't it.
 

Corgski

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It’s an organization for a ski racing team

Ski racing is about results

This is where people who may have issues with the USST may start differing with you. It is better to think of the USST as a club with a lot of members with different opinions and priorities. I have my own list of issues with the USST but there are few sport organizations which cover this wide an age range (roughly 5 to 90) most of whom are no-hopers for any kind of high level racing. Unfortunately the way they set up their web site does make them look like "an organization for a ski racing team", I really hope this is not the only way they think of themselves.

Making the age issue purely a USST leadership issue short circuits the debate, this is not something that they came up with from nowhere. Ski racing in general is very focused on age, progressions and the appropriate commitment at various stages. It can seem to be more like gymnastics where there is a real race against time. The age issue, specifically with respect to younger athletes, has been debated fiercely in this section of Pugski over the past season, this is the same but in the context of slightly older athletes. I think leaving Brian McLaughlin out is wrong, but this is the consequence of a more widely accepted development model, granting exemptions to obvious high profile cases dodges the issue of whether we need a better perspective of athlete development.
 

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@Corgski

You state “widely accepted development model”

OMG, you mean the same model what has got the USA in a poor situation right now with only a couple of regular podium/winners? Those being MS and LV

They need to take that development model, put in the USST~Alpine leaders pocket and show them the door on a one way trip

Edited to add: I can accept losing, I can accept mediocrity, but not due to piss poor planning/management.

I am sorry to those I might be offending, but as long as things stay the same, we will continue to get the same results, so prepare yourselves
 
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