Never tuned a ski and I'm thinking of starting

[TheArchitect]

Check with Mike first - the backbone of your wax box should be compatible with what he uses.

Hertel race is not the same as Hertel Hot Sauce and they have different compatibility.

I heard back from Mike this morning. He uses Swix CH7. He also said there isn't any concern about compatibility because all the waxes use the same relative molecules and are petroleum based. I have no bias for or against any particular brand (Swix, Dominator, Hertel, etc.) so I guess I'll read a bit more and then pick something to start with.

He also mentioned his SkiMD Pro-glide as something I should consider. I read some posts here about it and it seems like a good supplement to hot waxing.

 

[sparty]

FWIW I was a race coach for 5 years and I never saw anyone brush out a ski that wasn't going to be used in competition, at least not until we got rotobrushes that made it easy. I never saw the freestyle and mogul coaches do any maintenance. The race coaches were careful to have good edges but we were pretty casual about base structure and wax. Except when the snow is wet and warm, structure is way more important than wax.

Do you really think you are going to hot wax, scrape, brush and (especially) clean up every 2 or 3 days you ski?

dm

YMMV, but I've found that applying a brass brush after sharpening and before waxing results in better, longer-lasting glide (presumably due to a cleaner structure), even when I just scrape and don't brush after waxing. Also, a few years ago when I was working at an academy, the freestyle and freeride kids (and snowboarders) definitely did invest some time and effort into bases. Not as much as the racers did for speed skis, but there was a recognition across all disciplines that maintaining your equipment was important if you actually cared about results.

Agreed on structure being way more important than wax, and wax is a lot like oil in a car engine—as long as it's close to the right spec, it's a hell of a lot better than none at all. Aside from speed events, getting ass-deep in the wax selection and application game rarely provides any meaningful improvement over a good, temperature-appropriate hydrocarbon wax.

 

[jmeb]

Agree with @sparty that most recreational skiers that spend time geeking out on wax could be geeking out about more useful things -- like ski trips.

Unless you were previously getting hand waxes at a high quality shop (not just the belt waxes they include with most tunes), most any home hot wax is going to be better than your previous waxing regime. It's easy to overthink it.

 

[Mendieta]

Agree with @sparty that most recreational skiers that spend time geeking out on wax could be geeking out about more useful things -- like ski trips.

Unless you were previously getting hand waxes at a high quality shop (not just the belt waxes they include with most tunes), most any home hot wax is going to be better than your previous waxing regime. It's easy to overthink it.

Yes. The biggest gain for me was touching the (side) edges as frequently as I can with a diamond stone. Hard to screw up if you follow proper recommendations, and it did have a very noticeable impact. Especially in Sugar Bowl this past season, which saw a lot of ice, and the soft snow was always thin, sitting on top of ice.

 

[Steve]

As far as how long it takes - - - -. I can debur my edges on a pair of skis in a minute or two (diamond stones, bevel guide, vise.)

I can do a quick Wax Whizard (pro glide) to a pair of skis in a few minutes.

I can hot wax a pair of skis in about 15 minutes. Wait for dry and scrape brush in the same or less.

All told it's a quick process once you get used to it and if you aren't doing too much to the skis.

 

[Marker]

Yes, I use the lasso when skis are parallel to the floor, but on an angle the stands grip well enough. It's an inexpensive Wintersteiger that came with an okay cheap iron as well.

I never realized many vises can't easily put the ski on an angle like the cheap Wintersteiger. I find it easier to tune the side edges when on an angle because they are facing the light. The top notch also works to raise the ski for other work. I admit the lasso is not the best, but it's quick to set up a ski. I loop it around the front binding.

 

[cantunamunch]

I heard back from Mike this morning. He uses Swix CH7. ...
He also mentioned his SkiMD Pro-glide as something I should consider. I read some posts here about it and it seems like a good supplement to hot waxing.

Pick one backbone do-most-conditions wax and one cold (hard) wax. You want the cold wax for the below 10F days and for warm days on freshly made artificial snow. If the resort makes snow but you don't see snow whales sitting for 24hrs+? Use the hard wax.

In Swix, for the NE, that would be CH7 and CH5. Use the CH7 for everything else you read about (e.g. hot scrape base cleaning, travel wax, Pro-glide supplement to hot waxing).

Add a spring wax later.

Swix is the no-brainer available-anywhere choice. The biggest reason to look at other brands now would be to find your best balance point between durability (how often you feel like you need waxing) and wax price. Now here's the thing - there are almost no reliably objective durability comparisons so it's a question of try-a-little-at-a-time. (That's actually one of the better things about group tuning nights, you get to try a little bit here and a little bit there.)

 

[TheArchitect]

Yes. The biggest gain for me was touching the (side) edges as frequently as I can with a diamond stone. Hard to screw up if you follow proper recommendations, and it did have a very noticeable impact. Especially in Sugar Bowl this past season, which saw a lot of ice, and the soft snow was always thin, sitting on top of ice.

Once I get used to the waxing I'm planning to add touch-up of the edges to my routine for the reason you mention.

 

[TheArchitect]

Pick one backbone do-most-conditions wax and one cold (hard) wax. You want the cold wax for the below 10F days and for warm days on freshly made artificial snow. If the resort makes snow but you don't see snow whales sitting for 24hrs+? Use the hard wax.

In Swix, for the NE, that would be CH7 and CH5. Use the CH7 for everything else you read about (e.g. hot scrape base cleaning, travel wax, Pro-glide supplement to hot waxing).

Add a spring wax later.

Swix is the no-brainer available-anywhere choice. The biggest reason to look at other brands now would be to find your best balance point between durability (how often you feel like you need waxing) and wax price. Now here's the thing - there are almost no reliably objective durability comparisons so it's a question of try-a-little-at-a-time. (That's actually one of the better things about group tuning nights, you get to try a little bit here and a little bit there.)

Swix is an easy pick for starting out. Thanks for the advice on what to use and when

 

[Steve]

East coast skier. Debur is as important or even more than waxing. Easy-peasy, fast and keeps your edges sharp making filing and full tune needed less often.

 

[TheArchitect]

East coast skier. Debur is as important or even more than waxing. Easy-peasy, fast and keeps your edges sharp making filing and full tune needed less often.

Agreed, but I've never done any of this stuff in the past so I'm not in a rush. Teach myself waxing then start with edge maintenance. For all I know I'll be comfortable with waxing after 2-3 times and quickly add more. I'll play it by ear.

 

[TheArchitect]

That looks like the Swix T0075W I cart around with me all winter. It's pretty light weight. The top is particle board and will blow up on the first sign of moisture. It's not the most stable thing around. I like it because it's light weight and cheap ($70). Replacing the top sometime next month.

The SVST bench looks like pretty bomber so long I don't have to lug it around.

Just to be clear - Don't get the Swix.

Were you saying not to get that particular Swix table or any Swix table? The T0076 seems like a decent table.

 

[KingGrump]

The T0075 is really wobbly. The stability is more front to back rather than side to side. Usually I just push it up against a wall or put my foot on it to stabilize the bench.
The T0076 is much better in terms of stability. It's a wider unit. Wider splay on the legs. Those items should help with the front to back stability issues of the T0075. Still not too fond of their diagonal brace system.

For around $400, I would get the SVST unit.

BTW, get the Swix pre-cut Fiberlene pro paper pack. They pick up and hold more wax than the regular weight products. Transfers heat better than paper shop towels. One sheet will do one pair of ski.

 

[TheArchitect]

The T0075 is really wobbly. The stability is more front to back rather than side to side. Usually I just push it up against a wall or put my foot on it to stabilize the bench.
The T0076 is much better in terms of stability. It's a wider unit. Wider splay on the legs. Those items should help with the front to back stability issues of the T0075. Still not too fond of their diagonal brace system.

For around $400, I would get the SVST unit.

BTW, get the Swix pre-cut Fiberlene pro paper pack. They pick up and hold more wax than the regular weight products. Transfers heat better than paper shop towels. One sheet will do one pair of ski.

Thanks. I've been looking for someplace that has the SVST in stock but haven't found one yet. I was interested in alternatives if I couldn't find the SVST.

I need to find a video on using fiberlene. I've seen some videos with the ski being wiped down by hand but none with someone using fiberlene under an iron. Of course, I've watched so many waxing videos in the last couple days they're starting to blur together

 

[Sibhusky]

I don't have a fancy iron with a clip for the Fiberlene so I just hold the leading edge of it as I move the iron down the ski. It's not rocket science.

 

[Steve]

BTW, get the Swix pre-cut Fiberlene pro paper pack. They pick up and hold more wax than the regular weight products. Transfers heat better than paper shop towels. One sheet will do one pair of ski.

I just bought another (expected) box of these and they didn't come in a box, they came in a plastic sleeve. I still had the box so I put them in there.

I also just bought 400 gram Dominator Graphite Renew and Graphite Zoom bars and they didn't come in the plastic cases, but in plastic sleeves.

Annoying.

 

[Mendieta]

I don't have a fancy iron with a clip for the Fiberlene so I just hold the leading edge of it as I move the iron down the ski. It's not rocket science.

I did just that yesterday. Worked like a charm.

 

[TheArchitect]

I don't have a fancy iron with a clip for the Fiberlene so I just hold the leading edge of it as I move the iron down the ski. It's not rocket science.

I guess I should have been a bit more clear. I know that the fiberlene goes under the iron, and it soaks up extra wax. I'm just not clear when in the process it happens. Last coat to minimize final scraping?

 

[Mendieta]

I guess I should have been a bit more clear. I know that the fiberlene goes under the iron, and it soaks up extra wax. I'm just not clear when in the process it happens. Last coat to minimize final scraping?

Yes, I'll try to move some of my posts about it (mostly asking) to the fiberlene thread for consolidation. But yes, once the wax is spread and warm you do a last pass or two with the fiberlene underneath. It absorbs excess and makes the layer more uniform. Because I rubbed it on, there was very little wax to begin with. I let it cure (1 hour) and brushed. Then buffed a bit. Looks good to me. Very quick procedure, no mess. Thank you @Andy Mink for mentioning it in a random thread. I didn't know about it!

 

[sparty]

Agreed, but I've never done any of this stuff in the past so I'm not in a rush. Teach myself waxing then start with edge maintenance. For all I know I'll be comfortable with waxing after 2-3 times and quickly add more. I'll play it by ear.

Be aware that you should always make sure your base edges don't have any fresh rock damage before ironing, or you can damage the iron base plate (and then damage the base of any skis that you use said iron on).