Never tuned a ski and I'm thinking of starting

[Dave Marshak]

FWIW I was a race coach for 5 years and I never saw anyone brush out a ski that wasn't going to be used in competition, at least not until we got rotobrushes that made it easy. I never saw the freestyle and mogul coaches do any maintenance. The race coaches were careful to have good edges but we were pretty casual about base structure and wax. Except when the snow is wet and warm, structure is way more important than wax.

Do you really think you are going to hot wax, scrape, brush and (especially) clean up every 2 or 3 days you ski?

dm

 

[KingGrump]

I have several sets of vises.

https://www.amazon.com/Wintersteige...8&qid=1540411945&sr=8-4-acs&keywords=ski+vise
https://www.amazon.com/Swix-World-V...8&qid=1540411985&sr=8-4-acs&keywords=ski+vise

https://www.sierratradingpost.com/s...-tuning-kit~p~1869u/?filterString=s~ski-vise/

The 3 piece Swix and Wintersteiger are very similar in function. They are almost interchangeable. Only the center piece differentiate. I can use either set.
The 2 piece Swix unit as depicted in the STP page is funky to say the least. Got it free from somewhere. Not my cup of tea. The vise projects beyond the bench. Screw up the hip contact trick I use to promote body/work piece connectivity/awareness.

Truth be told, I do not use the middle piece much. I am pretty light with my hands so the friction provided by the rubber pieces on top of the two end vises are generally sufficient.

 

[Dave Marshak]

Truth be told, I do not use the middle piece much. I am pretty light with my hands so the friction provided by the rubber pieces on top of the two end vises are generally sufficient.

That's my experience as well. Unless I'm doing some serious base flattening, I don't usually need more than some blocks with some kind of friction material under the tips an tails. YMMV

dm

 

[TheArchitect]

FWIW I was a race coach for 5 years and I never saw anyone brush out a ski that wasn't going to be used in competition, at least not until we got rotobrushes that made it easy. I never saw the freestyle and mogul coaches do any maintenance. The race coaches were careful to have good edges but we were pretty casual about base structure and wax. Except when the snow is wet and warm, structure is way more important than wax.

Do you really think you are going to hot wax, scrape, brush and (especially) clean up every 2 or 3 days you ski?

dm

Honestly, I have no idea how frequently I'll do this. I'm on information overload right now trying to learn as much as I can. All I know at this point is that it seems like it would be fun to wax skis in between having Mike at SkiMD take care of the edge bevels or grinds. I was watching the Start Haus video with him using the brushes and it didn't seem like it was all that time consuming to do that, or the whole process overall. What are we talking about, an hour or two each time for waxing, scraping and brushing a pair of skis?

 

[Lorenzzo]

This thread reminded me to bring my skis into Podium for tunes.

I do handle my own waxing and deburring during the season. Sometimes.

 

[jmeb]

....

Do you really think you are going to hot wax, scrape, brush and (especially) clean up every 2 or 3 days you ski?

dm

At the beginning of the season I think I'm going to. By the end of the season I'm only waxing and touching up edges as I notice they are off.

Or when there is a big powder day forecasted and I want to get stoked.

Or when I just need a break from life, and 30 minutes in the garage with a glass of scotch, a skiing podcast, and the smell of wax fumes is the best break accessible to me.

 

[KingGrump]

Honestly, I have no idea how frequently I'll do this. I'm on information overload right now trying to learn as much as I can. All I know at this point is that it seems like it would be fun to wax skis in between having Mike at SkiMD take care of the edge bevels or grinds. I was watching the Start Haus video with him using the brushes and it didn't seem like it was all that time consuming to do that, or the whole process overall. What are we talking about, an hour or two each time for waxing, scraping and brushing a pair of skis?

I usually do a few days in the NE and the rest out west. So my requirements are mainly for softer snow.
Wax every 5/6 days. Spring - Every 3/4 days
Debur depends on how many rock strikes.
Side edge sharpening - 10/12 days. Sometime more. For NE - 5/6 days.
Base grind - 40/60 days.

Time wise - per pair.
Wax - Clean, hot scrape & wax - 10 minutes. Cooling/cure time - 3+ hours. Scrape & brush - 10 minutes.
Debur - 5 minutes.
Side edge sharpening - Files & diamond stones - 15 minutes. 10 minutes with a Razor Tune.

 

[Jacques]

This will only be for rec skis and for next couple years Kastle FX94, BMX105 and MX88. Is the idea that I should be able to clamp the center vise on the binding plate? I'll look for options with wider towers to start and look into what this lasso thingy is.

Your not going to like a lasso (center tie down). The ski will be too flexy. If you crank it down, the ski will be way curved into a super camber.
Stick with set that has a center vice.

 

[Jacques]

Jaws of beast for the win

https://the-raceplace.com/collections/tuning-equipment/products/jaws-of-the-beast

@Jacques approved equipment to handle any ski

If one knows the tricks to use it, it is a good cheap vice. After many many years I still do fine with mine and have learned do deal with it.
I even built some end pieces so I could work on snow boards. Ugg.....I don't like snowboards much, but will work on for a few friends from time to time.
Here is what I did. I think a guy could make some wide ends for ski base work easy if they are handy folks.
I work on wide skis with the stock ends though. No problem.
Yes, some skis that are not flat where the skis rest on the ends can be inclined to rock on way or another, yet with caution I have been able to work with those.

 

[Sibhusky]

Do you really think you are going to hot wax, scrape, brush and (especially) clean up every 2 or 3 days you ski?

Yes. And I'm an old lady. Of course, I don't take down the bench these days. It just happens to be a portable because when I first started I was working in the kennel and only left things up when we finished the basement. But I also do light structuring and edge work every time. Because if I'm going to lug the skis home it's going to be for more than just a wax.

I do need to get some better speakers in the tuning area, though.

 

[Jacques]

Honestly, I have no idea how frequently I'll do this. I'm on information overload right now trying to learn as much as I can. All I know at this point is that it seems like it would be fun to wax skis in between having Mike at SkiMD take care of the edge bevels or grinds. I was watching the Start Haus video with him using the brushes and it didn't seem like it was all that time consuming to do that, or the whole process overall. What are we talking about, an hour or two each time for waxing, scraping and brushing a pair of skis?

Some ways and things just take a lot of time. Some don't. Some should spend more time than they do. Some should spend less.
Main thing is if you are happy. Some are happy working on their skis and reaping the benefits. They come to know what works for them.
A full hand can take a long time. Doing a long base bevel can take a long time. (Park rail riding skis need a long bevel)
When you have like five plus hours you can watch this worlds longest ski tuning video in the world! Claim! At YT you can go 2x speed and it's only 2.5 hours or so! Ha ha.
If you watch and listen, every question you ever had should be answered and you will be a total pro! Maybe!

 

[TheArchitect]

I have several sets of vises.

https://www.amazon.com/Wintersteige...8&qid=1540411945&sr=8-4-acs&keywords=ski+vise
https://www.amazon.com/Swix-World-V...8&qid=1540411985&sr=8-4-acs&keywords=ski+vise

https://www.sierratradingpost.com/swix-deluxe-alpine-ski-tuning-kit~p~1869u/?filterString=s~ski-vise/

The 3 piece Swix and Wintersteiger are very similar in function. They are almost interchangeable. Only the center piece differentiate. I can use either set.

They look almost identical. Is the Wintersteiger center piece worth the extra $70?

 

[TheArchitect]

I usually do a few days in the NE and the rest out west. So my requirements are mainly for softer snow.
Wax every 5/6 days. Spring - Every 3/4 days
Debur depends on how many rock strikes.
Side edge sharpening - 10/12 days. Sometime more. For NE - 5/6 days.
Base grind - 40/60 days.

Time wise - per pair.
Wax - Clean, hot scrape & wax - 10 minutes. Cooling/cure time - 3+ hours. Scrape & brush - 10 minutes.
Debur - 5 minutes.
Side edge sharpening - Files & diamond stones - 15 minutes. 10 minutes with a Razor Tune.

Good guidelines. Thanks!

 

[jzmtl]

Toko T14 is what I use too, very nice iron, heavy solid base and the digital control is good for fine temp control.

 

[Dave Marshak]

Your not going to like a lasso (center tie down). The ski will be too flexy. If you crank it down, the ski will be way curved into a super camber.
Stick with set that has a center vice.

I don't care much for the lasso. If you are using stones or fine files it's not necessary. If you need to flatten the base it's not enough.

dm

 

[Marker]

And you use a Lasso? Or are the stands grippy enough for what you use the bench for?

Yes, I use the lasso when skis are parallel to the floor, but on an angle the stands grip well enough. It's an inexpensive Wintersteiger that came with an okay cheap iron as well.

 

[Dave Marshak]

Toko T14 is what I use too, very nice iron, heavy solid base and the digital control is good for fine temp control.

Digital PID control is the A+ answer. If I were doing racing tunes every day I would be all about that, but I'm not sure it's necessary for the occasional user. You can get a thermostat controlled iron on Ebay for $20 or $30, and that's way better than even my mom's best iron. YMMV.

dm

 

[river-z]

quick tip: I use some of those rubber wrist bracelets some people wear (like the 'Livestrong' ones) to hold down (up?) the brakes. they work great.

 

[KingGrump]

They look almost identical. Is the Wintersteiger center piece worth the extra $70?

Quite a few of the vises out there from different brands looks identical. Different paint job and logo. Probably all done in one factory somewhere in Europe.

Yeah, that center piece do looks impressive. Don't use it much but it sure looks good. Gets lots of ooohhhs and aaahhhhs from visitors.
For binding mounts and binding checks, I usually slip in a couple pieces of 2x6 screwed together in a T configuration and covered with carpeting to provide support for the middle of the ski. Don't have to mess with the screw clamp on the center vise.

Brake retainer - Couple #82 or #84 rubber band will do. A pound will last a while.

 

[TheArchitect]

Thanks again to everyone for the advice! I have my shopping list now, minus the bench. I'm still undecided on which one.

The Boston ski expo is in a couple weeks so I'll probably see if they have any tools on sale before starting to buy stuff. Swix will be there so if they're selling stuff maybe I'll pick up their brushes instead of the Beast ones if the price is right, along with the iron. I could go with their WC vise but I really like how wide the Wintersteiger opens (future proofing) and how it says it will clamp to any profile of sidewall.

Wintersteiger Pro Vise
Swix T73D Iron
Beast set of 3 brushes
Holmenkol scraper
Beast True Bar

Fiberlene
Scraper sander
Toko multi-purpose scraper