• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Nervous, need advice, please help if you've got a second...

MAB

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Posts
74
Location
Eastern Idaho
Uhh, what? So, how is that a business? Do I pay him to measure my feet and then I buy the boots from someone else? That seems... odd. What is his business? Why have a company called "Park City Boot Room" and not sell boots?

For your purposes, it is the best kind of business. The fitter I use operates like this, and last year when I when to him because I needed new boots, I walked out of there in the end having spent about $700 for the boots, custom footbeds, molding the intuition liner the boot came with, and adjustments to the boot. His assessment is free and took over an hour. He has no interest in what boot I end up in or where I buy it from other than the fact that he says it is the right boot. Once he told me what boot to buy, and he was able to narrow down to one, I went home, found last year's model on the internet for 60% off, and brought it back to him a few weeks later to do the fitting. If you are concerned about costs, this way of fitting allows you to find deals if you can be patient.
 

ted

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Posts
595
What is the local shop's name that supports your daughters race team? They may nave a well known fitter and you already know them and seem to have a relationship.

Do you hike a lot inbounds? If so a boot with a Grip Walk sole and hike mode may be attractive to you. The boot fitting options are more limited with the hike mode boots but there are some available now that are very close to standard non hike mode performance.


But be aware that Grip Walk may require you to get new bindings.
 

ted

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Posts
595
For your purposes, it is the best kind of business. The fitter I use operates like this, and last year when I when to him because I needed new boots, I walked out of there in the end having spent about $700 for the boots, custom footbeds, molding the intuition liner the boot came with, and adjustments to the boot. His assessment is free and took over an hour. He has no interest in what boot I end up in or where I buy it from other than the fact that he says it is the right boot. Once he told me what boot to buy, and he was able to narrow down to one, I went home, found last year's model on the internet for 60% off, and brought it back to him a few weeks later to do the fitting. If you are concerned about costs, this way of fitting allows you to find deals if you can be patient.

Mind sharing who your local shop is that provides this service/
 

rcc55125

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Posts
106
Location
Wasatch Back
@Ryan Dietrich as @Jilly just said, enough has been said already. You have the information you need. Spend the money for the best boot fitter you can find.

The following is my experience as someone who went from a "comfort" fit to spending 8 hours a day in boots and being on the hill 70 days a year.
For your own information measure your foot. This will give you a rough starting point for what size boot you may need. Stand on a piece of paper and draw an outline of you foot. Measure the length, toe to heel and measure the width across the ball of the foot; do this in centimeters. For me those measurements are 27.5 cm long by 92 mm wide; I wear a size 11A men's street shoe. From this you may think my boot size is a 27.5, wrong, I'm in a 26.5 Head 120 RS. Doing a shell fit with the 26.5 showed over 10 mm space in the shell length. The 120 RS is built on a 92 mm last so the width is close. I have one small punch in each boot for the "sixth toe". I have custom foot beds because I have flat feet. The boot soles are canted because I stand bow legged but I ski knock kneed; this means the cant is opposite of bow legged. I have a 1 mm shim under the left liner, on top of the boot board, because of a leg length issue. I'm not that good of a skier but yes I can feel the difference with the 1 mm ship. That's what it took to get the skis to glide flat. All of the above took several trips to the boot fitter. But, the result is I can spend 8 hours in boots and my feet don't hurt and their not cold, except when it get's below zero, then I wear a Boot Glove.
As a side note, my wife who wears a size 8 street shoe is in the same size boot. Her reason is she has a very high instep and it took that size to the the volume she needed.
Do a shell fit with your Superchargers. If you have over 15 mm space behind the heel, with the big toe just touching the shell, your boots are too big. Regardless of the liner packing out.
As far as you boots being 8 years old and asking how long they should last, I just had a conversation about that. One manufacturers estimate of how long it takes the liners to pack out is 16 days. Sounds absurd, right? Well 16 days times 24 hours is 384 hours. Divide this by 8 hours for ski days and you get 48 days of skiing. If you use 6 hours for the ski day it makes 64 days. The "average" skier skis 10 days a year meaning the "average" boot life is 5 to 7 years.
Considering the "average' skier walks from the parking lot to the lift in their boots the soles are probably worn down in 4 years. If your going to spend the money for custom foot beds and professionally fitted boots carry them to the lodge. Then always wear some sort of sole protector such as a Cat Track or Yak Trax. They make walking easier and help protect your investment.

So, I really haven't added anything to the conversation. Just get thee to the best foot fitter you can find.
 

Doug Briggs

"Douche Bag Local"
Industry Insider
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Posts
7,483
Location
Breckenridge, CO
I interpreted OP's question as asking about footbeds, not external soles for the boot shell.

If that is the question, the answer is, of course, to get one that fits without spending money on one that doesn't.

I agree with your observation about the OP referencing footbeds as 'the sole'.

I'll add that a properly made footbed is an essential part of the solution to a proper fitting boot.
 

Seldomski

All words are made up
Skier
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Posts
3,052
Location
'mericuh
I suggest you take your old boots with you to the new fitter.

Also, @rcc55125 brings up a good point -- you should do a shell fit of your current boots now for your own education. Look on youtube for some videos of what this is.

I did what other are recommending here -- find a reputable fitter that works for a commission. Buy the boot and size he/she recommends. Fitter modifies the boot to your foot. Ski the boot a week or so and re-evaluate - should only be minor tweaks after that. I was out of pocket roughly $550 for boot plus ~$300 for footbeds and fitter fitting fee.

Edit to add: I am very happy with my boots!!!
 
Thread Starter
TS
Ryan Dietrich

Ryan Dietrich

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Posts
106
What is the local shop's name that supports your daughters race team? They may nave a well known fitter and you already know them and seem to have a relationship.

Nyman's ski shop. My daughter is on the sundance ski team. Scott Nyman is a wonderful guy, but he really focuses more on rentals and selling gear, than doing this elaborate boot fitting people describe. I had a friend who bought boots from him, I was with him while he was there, it worked out, they found something that was super comfortable, and my friend is super happy, but again, I was absurdly ignorant of the "right way" to buy boots.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Ryan Dietrich

Ryan Dietrich

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Posts
106
I agree with your observation about the OP referencing footbeds as 'the sole'.

I'll add that a properly made footbed is an essential part of the solution to a proper fitting boot.

Yes, sorry, I wasn't using the correct terminology (did I mention I don't know anything about boots?). I meant the replaceable "footbeds" as the sole. My buddy from NYC bought these incredible looking "Technica" boots. They must have cost over $1k, they look like F22's on his feet. Anyway, he goes out, and is practically in tears because his feet hurt so badly. I took him over to Nymans and they laughed and pulled out the wafer thin "footbed" and grabbed a box of some decent replacements. He had no issues going forward, I was shocked.

Hold on.. You're telling me, you guys get custom footbeds that conform to your feet?! Holy crap.. I feel like I'm "hardcore" in all the ways other people are not (I ski on my lunchbreak, I drive up to Sundance, get a few runs in, and then go back to work). Even better, I got tickets to the sundance film festival (for the screening room AT the Sundance Resort), the show was at 7pm, I night skied from 5:00-6:58, I pulled my boots off for some shoes and went and watched the movie (which was awesome) in my snowpants, tee hee. My point is, I have spent an inordinate amount of time on "everything else", and reading all the *awesome* replies in this forum to my plea for help is getting me to understand there is a LOT more about boots than "are they comfortable? yes/no" .. I have a lot more to learn it appears.
 

Jilly

Lead Cougar
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,412
Location
Belleville, Ontario,/ Mont Tremblant, Quebec
Yes, even superfeet from the drug store are better than what's in the liner now.

My boot fitter also does not sell boots. He'll examine your foot and supporting structure and recommend a boot and the size. You get it and return to him. So I was able to purchase the boot through my CSIA deal. He then had to blow out both toes. (Did one at the gathering in WB). He also made me new foot beds that are fantastic. Remember unless your foot changes significantly those foot beds should last a long time. I paid $400 for the initial work. Small changes are at no cost.

My problem is that he winters in Whistler, not Ottawa!
 

coskigirl

Skiing the powder
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,591
Location
Evergreen, CO
Yes, sorry, I wasn't using the correct terminology (did I mention I don't know anything about boots?). I meant the replaceable "footbeds" as the sole. My buddy from NYC bought these incredible looking "Technica" boots. They must have cost over $1k, they look like F22's on his feet. Anyway, he goes out, and is practically in tears because his feet hurt so badly. I took him over to Nymans and they laughed and pulled out the wafer thin "footbed" and grabbed a box of some decent replacements. He had no issues going forward, I was shocked.

Hold on.. You're telling me, you guys get custom footbeds that conform to your feet?! Holy crap.. <snip>

Everyone's feet are so different that it's not worth it for boot manufacturers to try to find a footbed that works for everyone or even most people. They put the money into the other parts of the book then leave it to to fitters to fine tune. Think about it, your shoes are flexible materials (for the most part) that naturally form to your feet. Ski boots are hard plastic and for the vast majority of people will need adjustment. Same with footbeds. I'd guess 90% of the regular skiers that I know have custom footbeds or at the very least a Superfeet type of footbed.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
...and 90% of recreational skiers are in boots too big, not realizing that their skis are not firmly under control. Why? A misunderstanding of what makes a boot comfortable. A misunderstanding of what makes a boot a good thing to buy. A misunderstanding of what a boot is; people don't know it's a tool that performs well when it fits well. It translates your foot movements to the ski. It's the steering wheel for your ride.

That percentage is a guess. Others are free to disagree.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Ryan Dietrich

Ryan Dietrich

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Posts
106
:thumb: Two small changes:
cross out "hope I", replace with 'work with them to'
cross out "decent", replace with 'functionally better than ever before'.

And welcome to a new plane of what the sport can be.

I appreciate your confidence in this process, but pardon my skepticism. Going from an "east coast" parabolic camber ski to a tip/tail rocker ski (in Utah) was the single biggest change I have ever felt. I'd be surprised if boots are capable of THAT level of an effect. My wife is making an appointment today. I'm just not used to not doing tons of research, and figuring things out for myself.
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
21,899
Location
Behavioral sink
I appreciate your confidence in this process, but pardon my skepticism.

No probs, that is why the thread exists.

Going from an "east coast" parabolic camber ski to a tip/tail rocker ski (in Utah) was the single biggest change I have ever felt. I'd be surprised if boots are capable of THAT level of an effect.

Well, that's a bit like comparing apples to - cucumbers. Changing from a cambered carver to a floaty surfy ski is a change in the intended function. With the boots you're not changing the intended function, you're changing how well the boot does what it does. A better comparison might be comparing a generic cambered carver to a race ski - and yes a good boot is easily that big a change.


I'm just not used to not doing tons of research, and figuring things out for myself.

Here's the thing though - you _will_ be doing tons of research and figuring things out for yourself. Except the research will be inside you, figuring how your body works best, where you need extra stiffness, where you need extra edge, and where you don't. Don't skimp on this, and don't underestimate the importance of doing your best here.

Here's a metaphor that works: Your job is to be the race car test driver. It is not an easy job. Let the engineers and mechanics do their proper jobs, which are not your jobs. You've never been a test driver before now. The kind of research you're used to, in this metaphor, is done by the kid looking at glossy car mags.
 
Last edited:

Mendieta

Master of Snowplow
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
4,903
Location
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
@Ryan Dietrich : this earlier post:

...and 90% of recreational skiers are in boots too big, not realizing that their skis are not firmly under control. Why? A misunderstanding of what makes a boot comfortable. A misunderstanding of what makes a boot a good thing to buy. A misunderstanding of what a boot is; people don't know it's a tool that performs well when it fits well. It translates your foot movements to the ski. It's the steering wheel for your ride.

Addresses this:

I appreciate your confidence in this process, but pardon my skepticism.

Good skis with bad fitting boots is like a car with a very loose connection to the best Michelin tires. You steer the steering wheel, and the shaft it connects to, is loose. From your description above you are in that situation, so you should be very happy with the change. Of course, happiness is a relative thing, and how bad your current boots are, is anybody's guess. Anyways, looks like you on the right track now. Congrats!
 

rcc55125

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Posts
106
Location
Wasatch Back
@Ryan Dietrich, none of us have said don't do a lot or research. We're just making it easier for you (or maybe more confusing).
http://parkcitybootroom.com, I'm sure you've checked this out by now. Just from looking at the references on his website it sounds like Matt knows ski boots and fitting. See what he has to say. If it makes you comfortable, great, go with it. If you need a second opinion here are a couple.

If you think your feet are a little out of normal or you have pain in every day activities you may want to check out a pedorthist. My boot fitter, HiTempo, is a pedorthist, a specialty maker of foot beds and supports. It looks like there are two pedorthist's on staff at Park City Ski Boot, http://www.parkcityskiboot.com.
A pedorthist is not a doctor but rather a technician that has been trained in how to fit and adjust foot wear and make supports for the feet. When you combine this with a ski boot fitter you can get almost any kind of foot into a ski boot and have it work well. There's no such thing as a normal foot.

Jeff Bergeron at Boot Fixation in Breckenridge is a certified pedorthist and considered on of the best boot fitters in the country. At least that's what they tell me in Breckenridge.

If you want to go all out you could contact David MacPhail who works out of Whistler. He has a couple of patents for ski boots. He's designed boots and has a totally different method to fitting ski boots. If you want to do research try reading his blog or twitter. The blog will give you a headache but you will learn more about ski boots than you thought possible and be even more confused; https://skimoves.me, https://twitter.com/skimoves. But, you will have a better understanding of how the foot works in a ski boot.

In the end I think you'll find fitting a ski boot is more complex than you want to deal with and just go to a pro and work with them. Remember, many of us have said it won't be a one trip deal. To get things perfectly dialed in you will need a couple of return visits after you have skied your new boots. But, you have to start with a properly fitted boot to begin with.
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,617
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
When my daughter got her boots replaced with a pair that fit better, I had to remount her bindings; she had originally been sold a comfort fit boot that was way too big, and the performance fit boots were so much smaller that her bindings could not be adjusted properly to fit the boot and still have forward pressure without unscrewing the mounting screws and moving them in to new holes. This is pretty easy to do if the bindings are on a plate, and not really a problem if you have to drill, unless your skis are Swiss cheese from several prior remounts.
 

WheatKing

Ice coast carveaholic
Skier
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Posts
258
Location
Ontario, Canada
@Ryan Dietrich I was where you were a few years ago... and the difference is night and day..

Pain gone, weird movements from former alignment issues, gone.. more balanced turns.. and a huge confidence boost since now my skis are extensions of my legs, instead of just things clamped to my feet.

Seeing a professional fitter was the single best thing I've ever done to improve my skiing. You don't need to be an expert on boots, just know the right guy who is and trust that they'll get you setup correctly.

Pay the price for boots, get discount skis.. and don't walk in with expectations of what boot you want.. let them tell you what boot you need based on what you ski and how you ski.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top