• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

kimmyt

My Rack Is Bigger Than Yours
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
518
And as for privates - obviously that is incredibly expensive, but also, many ski instructors (I can't speak to Taos specifically) can't ski terrain at the pace and frequency that someone like Kim can. A lot of those will be booked already. A private with an instructor who mostly teaches level 5-7s and maybe hits serious terrain once a day in perfect conditions with his best students - that's not worth the money you pay, but it's also VERY difficult to tell an instructor like that, hey, you can't actually hang at my pace - I need someone else. Believe me, I've been there, tried to do it. I think of myself as assertive, but tell someone to their face that even though they're a professional and you're an amateur, they aren't comfortable enough or fast enough on challenging terrain, or the habits they developed teaching level 7s are interfering with you actually enjoying yourself.

I was with you 100% until here, because I don't feel comfortable with where you've put me. I had no issues with the level of the instructors and believe iof I had the means to pay for a private, I would have been just fine with most of the instructors at TSV. There are a lot of lifelong instructors there, it seems to me, that charge quite hard, nor do I delude myself into thinking I am a better skier than an instructor. My issue here is solely what they advertised (expert level mountain tour) vs what the product was (2.5 hour lesson)
 
Thread Starter
TS
Brock Tice

Brock Tice

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Posts
405
And as for privates - obviously that is incredibly expensive, but also, many ski instructors (I can't speak to Taos specifically) can't ski terrain at the pace and frequency that someone like Kim can. A lot of those will be booked already. A private with an instructor who mostly teaches level 5-7s and maybe hits serious terrain once a day in perfect conditions with his best students - that's not worth the money you pay, but it's also VERY difficult to tell an instructor like that, hey, you can't actually hang at my pace - I need someone else. Believe me, I've been there, tried to do it. I think of myself as assertive, but tell someone to their face that even though they're a professional and you're an amateur, they aren't comfortable enough or fast enough on challenging terrain, or the habits they developed teaching level 7s are interfering with you actually enjoying yourself.

The absolute best skier I've ever seen was my instructor one year for locals. I am sure he could ski anything on the mountain the other instructors could, and would do it more gracefully than appears possible, but a hard charger he is not. It's not even simply a matter of skill, it's a matter of disposition.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
10,561
Location
Colorado
I was with you 100% until here, because I don't feel comfortable with where you've put me. I had no issues with the level of the instructors and believe iof I had the means to pay for a private, I would have been just fine with most of the instructors at TSV. There are a lot of lifelong instructors there, it seems to me, that charge quite hard, nor do I delude myself into thinking I am a better skier than an instructor. My issue here is solely what they advertised (expert level mountain tour) vs what the product was (2.5 hour lesson)

Absolutely. You made it clear that your instructor was aces.
 

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
27,605
Location
Reno
This is very divergant from the OP, but I'm pretty surprised to see everyone here jumping down my throat from an offhand comment I made.
I didn't feel like I was jumping down your throat.
Knowing you, I was just surprised that you would sign up for a group lesson that included people who needed to be(in your words) babysat.

And NO, this is absolutely not all on me. I had a lengthy conversation with ski school prior to paying for the lesson.
I thought that the best use of my time was to pay someone to show me the goods and was told that this was a good idea by the people I was trying to pay.

It sucks that the ski school didn't handle this better. If I were you, I'd communicate how displeased you were with the outcome. Hopefully, your communication can influence future visits to Taos.

*I'm sorry that we took @KingGrump away to ski Big Sky with us that week. He would have been the perfect guide for you. Heck, you should have been at Big Sky with us. :D
 

Pequenita

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Posts
1,624
Not to add on to the derailment, but the bad day comment from another student is totally irrelevant to a student's response to an instructor's question "so what do you want to get out of this class?" It's at best a really awkward way to inject oneself into the conversation.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
10,561
Location
Colorado
Not to add on to the derailment, but the bad day comment from another student is totally irrelevant to a student's response to an instructor's question "so what do you want to get out of this class?" It's at best a really awkward way to inject oneself into the conversation.

That is an excellent point.
 

Seldomski

All words are made up
Skier
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Posts
3,063
Location
'mericuh
@kimmyt brings up a good point ... I will sometimes book group lessons on ski trips to get away from other people I am skiing with :eek:. This also allows me to meet new people on the slopes.

Sometimes I feel I can get a better skill match with a ski group and/or learn things as opposed to playing guide myself. Under the guise of lesson, the others I am traveling with will accept my leaving the group without getting upset. Sometimes it is worth the group lesson price to do this. I know of a few others who do this also.

If instead I said, "Hey guys, I'm going to ski with this dude I met via an internet forum today." Somehow, that doesn't go over as well. Apparently paying $$ to the resort makes this acceptable? If I am somewhere solo, or just skiing with my wife (who books her own lesson), I can do the skiing-with-guy-I-met-online thing without repercussions.

YMMV
 

dbostedo

Asst. Gathermeister
Moderator
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Posts
18,335
Location
75% Virginia, 25% Colorado
If instead I said, "Hey guys, I'm going to ski with this dude I met via an internet forum today." Somehow, that doesn't go over as well. Apparently paying $$ to the resort makes this acceptable? If I am somewhere solo, or just skiing with my wife (who books her own lesson), I can do the skiing-with-guy-I-met-online thing without repercussions.

If it's just the money thing that makes it acceptable, I'd be happy to have you pay me to ski with me. :D
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,319
Location
NYC
@kimmyt , I believe you should talk to the ski school about your experience. They will often give you a credit for another lesson. Another Pugskier on this forum did that and had a make up lesson with one of the PSIA examiner. Don't get me wrong, Trey is a good instructor but there is often only so much he can do.
 

ADKmel

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
Posts
2,358
Location
Southern Adirondacks NY
This continues to deviate a little, but if you want an instructor that loves to go hard at TSV, see if you can snag Tim Larsen or Scott Lacek (sp? Pronounced like LASIK). Tim took our locals group to upper stauffenberg for our very first warm-up run this year. Both of them can and have run me ragged.

I grew up with Scott Lacek! We were neighbors and on ski team way back when. never seem to connect when I'm there!

As for strong women skiers the instructors are fine it's the dudes in the class that think they are great and we gals ski better- We burned up 3 guys who left our 4some. LOL
Girls can ski.. But (as an instructor) We have to go as slow as the slowest in the group that is a problem in group lessons..
 

Don Canard

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Posts
38
Location
Catskills, NY
operating in the low speed regime... I am what the English would call a punter, but I take my skiing seriously and put in my time to acquire the science. (If you know the following you can stop reading once you realize that you know it...) At low speed you can't cheat, if your form is clean, you'll ski clean, conversely, if your form is bad, you can't reach for momentum to save yourself from making wretched turns and the like. Amusingly, there's an analogy here to what the fighter folks (Boyd) discovered way back in the 60s (I'm chairborne but I read his book) that flying the aircraft most effectively is all about managing energy, which I'd call momentum. They operate in 3 dimensions, we operate mostly in 2 although the fall line is an approximation of free fall. Your relation of your center of gravity to the earth's is expressed/implemented through your skis. Control all through the performance envelope is how to come close to your favorite deity (in a good way, while remaining in this plane of existence). Drill drill drill.
 

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
27,605
Location
Reno
I grew up with Scott Lacek! We were neighbors and on ski team way back when. never seem to connect when I'm there!

As for strong women skiers the instructors are fine it's the dudes in the class that think they are great and we gals ski better- We burned up 3 guys who left our 4some. LOL
Girls can ski.. But (as an instructor) We have to go as slow as the slowest in the group that is a problem in group lessons..
Funny,
I recall a story about Annie Black when she was teaching at Keystone. The story goes:
There was a group of National Reserve guys who showed up to take a lesson and wanted someone who could keep up. They showed up to their lesson and found that their instructor was Annie Black. They didn't blink an eye at the thought of a woman being strong because they'd served military with strong women.
Annie proceeded to show them around Keystone and ran them ragged, and they were happy.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
10,561
Location
Colorado
They didn't blink an eye at the thought of a woman being strong because they'd served military with strong women.

Counter to what *I* would expect and stereotype - in my experience, this is common with younger men with a military background. And of course, as the years go on, "younger" will no longer apply.

But anyway, back to the original topic - apologies if this is rehash; I just read the first page.

I can empathize..sometimes people drag me out mountain biking and they...just...suck... And I have a very hard time hanging around. I dunno..I'm riding with purpose..it's not leisure time..to me anyway. I don't even know if I could instruct...just can't imagine..patience I suppose.

I am a slow rider. If there's talk of riding together, I simply tell people that I am very slow, and they are welcome to choose otherwise. Then they inevitably say that they are slow, and I say, no, really. I will be slower than you. If they still want to ride, cool. I'm working on being okay with it and saying "Thank you" instead of "Sorry." After the first ride, if you want to ride with me, it's on you. Some amount of responsibility must rest with the slower / less skilled person.

Just don't bail on me half way through the ride, and especially don't bail on me without saying something.

That being said, I've been the weaker skier when I was still lacking confidence to ski down bumps etc, and it would have sucked to be "abandoned" by friends. It still sucks now, but at least I have the comfort level to go ski on my own. And yeah, it has happened, and I was ghosted, which was especially sucky.

But @Brock Tice also said sometimes he *wants* to ski with people who are slower skiers. That is tough. People have mentioned working on technical skiing, but that only works if you're interested in skiing the same terrain. People have mentioned taking a few runs on your own - I think this is viable, and it "should" be okay with the weaker skier if they are an adult and have solid emotional intelligence. Don't be a dick about it, but also, you're not responsible for other people's feelings.

Easier said than done.

Ultimately, I think the answer is simple but difficult - you have to make peace with your decision and go with it. Think of it as a COMPLETELY different activity. There's skiing, and there's being social on skis. It's a mental shift, like going into the backcountry. You know that backcountry skiing is going to have less vertical and must be more carefully considered, and for many of us will be on mellower terrain. But that's what you sign up for, and there are different reasons to go.

I think if I were being paid instead of paying to be there it would be different.

Yes, but - I have noticed that my ski instructor friends are really genuinely just happy to ski with their friends, no matter the level and terrain. I think that ski instructors are just a special breed of people. If they weren't enthusiastic about skiing of ALL kinds, they couldn't be instructors. Or they'd be miserable instructors ... in both senses of the word.

If you stop and wait more often, each wait will be shorter.

Flip side: When I was the slowest in a lesson group, my instructor told me that I should go first. He pointed out that while they'll still overtake me, they won't be waiting nearly as long. It's hard for the weakest skier to go first, but it does help with waiting, and it also gives the more experienced skier the opportunity to play "sweep" for a yard sale.

Maybe suggest that the other person go first, and you'll video them? Two birds, one stone - you'll have something to do :)
 
Thread Starter
TS
Brock Tice

Brock Tice

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Posts
405
After some time thinking about this thread, and trying to apply some of it, I want to thank everyone for the helpful suggestions and comments.

I gained useful techniques for being patient and slaking my energy, pointers on etiquette, and perspective. I've had more fun skiing with others, and I think I've been more pleasant to ski with as well.

It will be an ongoing struggle, and I might have to stay solo on powder days, but I'm making good progress.
 

Goose

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Posts
1,311
WTF? Dollars to donuts he wouldn’t have said that to a man.

I doubt that. From what I understand, the guys at Taos are used to strong female skiers.

They're used to strong female local skiers. I suspect they are used to guys coming to visit with their girlfriends/wives and sending the girls off on a lesson so they can go play in the good stuff.
.

No one can truly know the intent of that persons comment. But sometimes from our past experiences we (by human nature) expect or assume or even at times can look for wrongdoings while not truly knowing whether or not they are even there. And that in itself can be just as wrong and problematic to all as the other. And even more so to the person doing the assuming. Its like pouring the gravy over ones own head while no one else was actually doing it in the first place. And fwiw....any wife or girlfriend that doesn't want to be disrespectfully tossed off to the lesson bin doesn't have to go if that's indeed what is being done or if that's how they are taking it.
 

Drahtguy Kevin

Après aficionado
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Posts
1,832
Location
Northern Colorado
5E624478-6FAE-4A5D-A7CE-765B361A4453.jpeg

I showed up a few hours ahead of the Colorado Crew on our recent Taos adventure. Being the amiable MFer that I am, I connected on the lift with a couple of locals who welcomed me to tag along. We hiked and skied and repeated. Taos folk are friendly. This drop off the ridge was oh so good. Unfortunately I don’t think I could ever find it again. There was bushwhacking involved.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Brock Tice

Brock Tice

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Posts
405
View attachment 69434
This drop off the ridge was oh so good. Unfortunately I don’t think I could ever find it again. There was bushwhacking involved.

Looks like somewhere in the neighborhood of tbird trees maybe. Hard to say exactly. There are many spots like that along West Basin Ridge. Choose the wrong one and you can get cliffed out or stuck in some other gnarly situation.
 

tovodeverett

Booting up
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2019
Posts
21
Location
Anchorage, AK
I completely concur with the folks who have advocated taking up telemarking. I've telemarked since I was 13 (30+ years), and last year I had finally had to switch to plastic tele boots so I could keep up with my kids (9 and 12) on the slopes. Telemarking really works your quads (and everything else), so you'll appreciate those breaks for giving your legs a chance to recharge. I've spent a lot of time over the last few seasons tail-gunning my kids in Mighty Mites and it works out great for me - I end up skiing terrain I wouldn't always pick (they've got much shorter skis), I can help get a kid who loses a ski get back up and moving again faster (so my kid gets more skiing time), and the breaks help my legs. I find that when I ski solo, I tire too quickly! Mostly I'm just excited to have kids that love skiing as much (or even more) than I do.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top