Need a dedicated powder ski

[AngryAnalyst]

Ok, quick summary from the weekend.

Saturday, Solitude 6 inches fresh. I was 15 chairs back from the first. (J-Ski The Friend)

• "The Friend" felt extremely heavy going through untracked powder. My legs (which have done 400k vertical this season so far) suffered.
• Once the skis were in a turn, it took a LOT of energy to get them out of the turn. I can tell these skis just wanted me to ski super fast and do as few turns as possible, that just isn't my style.
• The biggest upside is I felt I could lean forward like I normally ski and the tips didn't get buried. That was a nice change!
• As the day got tracked out I felt I was getting out of control very quickly because of my lack of experience, and not handling the transitions between tracked out powder and newly formed powder moguls (plus I was getting tired)
• I switched back to my Mantra's after the 7th run, they handled the tracked out snow far better and I had a great day.

Sunday, Sundance 7-8 inches wet, heavier snow, I was first chair (Volkl Mantra's)

• My favorite blue is Wildflower, if you run on the far left side it is much steeper and goes through the trees. The snow was closer to a foot deep there. I tried to ski with the same technique just to see if it was in my head with my mantra's. I got stuck. The tips got buried and I kind of slogged to a stop. So I rode in the back seat to keep oriented, and got wore out after a couple runs.
• There is a black diamond called No-Excuse where I am comfortable taking it at speed because I have skied it many times, and I was able to ski "faster", without leaning way back to maintain some sort of "flotation".

You learned a ton. Do you have paid Blister gear review access? They have a deep dive on the friend vs. a couple of other skis (https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2018-2019-j-skis-the-friend for the review, deepdive is linked off of that article).

If I were you I'd key in on the "heavy" and "took a lot of energy" descriptions above when reading the Blister review. I think they should push you towards lighter skis with softer flexes and looser tales vs. the friend.

Did I miss something? I haven't skied it but the 120 Bentchetler sounds pretty special from Blister commentary and the Armada ARV JJ is classic playful pow stick.

Incidentally, I did not much care for the 112 RPC from DPS when I tried it briefly (too light and too soft for me) but others do like it.

 

[GregK]

You learned a ton. Do you have paid Blister gear review access? They have a deep dive on the friend vs. a couple of other skis (https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2018-2019-j-skis-the-friend for the review, deepdive is linked off of that article).

If I were you I'd key in on the "heavy" and "took a lot of energy" descriptions above when reading the Blister review. I think they should push you towards lighter skis with softer flexes and looser tales vs. the friend.

Did I miss something? I haven't skied it but the 120 Bentchetler sounds pretty special from Blister commentary and the Armada ARV JJ is classic playful pow stick.

Incidentally, I did not much care for the 112 RPC from DPS when I tried it briefly (too light and too soft for me) but others do like it.

Was thinking the exact same thing reading the summary of the powder days-you need something lighter and surfier for powder will become fun.

Still think the Moment Wildcat is great as it’s only a bit over 13lbs with Attack bindings and very surfy in powder but think the new Bent Chetler 120 is an excellent idea as is the Armada ARV 116. Both very light skis and especially think the Bent Chetler with the mount moved back a few cm(very centered mount) would be very easy to ski and would float for days.

It’s not out yet but the new 2020 Line Outline(117mm) was unreal in untracked powder but it didn’t suck when things were tracked out even though it feels very light and surfy. Was very impressed with it and could see lots of abilities and skiers liking it.
New Sir Francis Bacon(107mm) is even lighter and softer flexing so I found it a little wimpy for my tastes but for lighter skiers, might be fun.

 

[Lorenzzo]

You learned a ton. Do you have paid Blister gear review access? They have a deep dive on the friend vs. a couple of other skis (https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2018-2019-j-skis-the-friend for the review, deepdive is linked off of that article).

If I were you I'd key in on the "heavy" and "took a lot of energy" descriptions above when reading the Blister review. I think they should push you towards lighter skis with softer flexes and looser tales vs. the friend.

Did I miss something? I haven't skied it but the 120 Bentchetler sounds pretty special from Blister commentary and the Armada ARV JJ is classic playful pow stick.

Incidentally, I did not much care for the 112 RPC from DPS when I tried it briefly (too light and too soft for me) but others do like it.

The 112 RPC (2016-17) was a teaser for me. It was my sole pow ski several years back but I found while in most light density it was about as much fun as I've had in fresh, man, increase snow density and/or wind effect and it quickly crossed into the zone of try and balance on this, sucker. And it's hard to know what snow will be like from the base before the day begins. Nowadays there are skis that come pretty close to the butteriness of the older DPS but which handle weird or dense snow better. The Wildcat is one example. For all I know the current version 112RPC could be too, haven't been on it so I don't know. If the current version were to have the old feel but stouter performance it would be an interesting candidate.

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

My friend is at Alta right now. They are offering him some used Alchemist A112 demo skis for $500 with bindings. I'm going to try them out, ugh, not next weekend, but the weekend after (I have to go to Brian Head this weekend for my daughters race, which will be super fun).

 

[AngryAnalyst]

Was thinking the exact same thing reading the summary of the powder days-you need something lighter and surfier for powder will become fun.

Still think the Moment Wildcat is great as it’s only a bit over 13lbs with Attack bindings and very surfy in powder but think the new Bent Chetler 120 is an excellent idea as is the Armada ARV 116. Both very light skis and especially think the Bent Chetler with the mount moved back a few cm(very centered mount) would be very easy to ski and would float for days.

It’s not out yet but the new 2020 Line Outline(117mm) was unreal in untracked powder but it didn’t suck when things were tracked out even though it feels very light and surfy. Was very impressed with it and could see lots of abilities and skiers liking it.
New Sir Francis Bacon(107mm) is even lighter and softer flexing so I found it a little wimpy for my tastes but for lighter skiers, might be fun.

Haven't the big Wildcat ever, but do love my Wildcat 108 tours. My intuition is that the wider version is probably a ridiculous carver for the width and very easy to pivot, but might not have awesome float (based on the 108 version in the light core). The wide Wildcat would not be my first choice for powder only if I lived in Utah, but I do think it would be in the top 3-5. The 184 might be a good fit if he wants versatility from this slot (so he doesn't have to go swap skis in the middle of the day).

The 112 RPC (2016-17) was a teaser for me. It was my sole pow ski several years back but I found while in most light density it was about as much fun as I've had in fresh, man, increase snow density and/or wind effect and it quickly crossed into the zone of try and balance on this, sucker. And it's hard to know what snow will be like from the base before the day begins. Nowadays there are skis that come pretty close to the butteriness of the older DPS but which handle weird or dense snow better. The Wildcat is one example. For all I know the current version 112RPC could be too, haven't been on it so I don't know. If the current version were to have the old feel but stouter performance it would be an interesting candidate.

The old one was a rocking chair for me in hot slush. I took one run and swapped at the demo tent because I was afraid of torquing my knees out. Could not get them off my feet fast enough. I'm sure they've changed it a bit and I have such limited experience with it I don't think I'm a reliable source.

That said, few people I take seriously about skis seem to like non-Lotus DPS much so I haven't been tempted to repeat the experiment. My wife tried the Cassiars and found them super turny and not very damp in the Foundation construction.

 

[GregK]

My friend is at Alta right now. They are offering him some used Alchemist A112 demo skis for $500 with bindings. I'm going to try them out, ugh, not next weekend, but the weekend after (I have to go to Brian Head this weekend for my daughters race, which will be super fun).

The Bent Chetler 120 is actually lighter than the DPS A112 so keep that in mind. Will be insane deals very soon on skis like the Bent 120 in a few weeks with Spring sales.

Haven't the big Wildcat ever, but do love my Wildcat 108 tours. My intuition is that the wider version is probably a ridiculous carver for the width and very easy to pivot, but might not have awesome float (based on the 108 version in the light core). The wide Wildcat would not be my first choice for powder only if I lived in Utah, but I do think it would be in the top 3-5. The 184 might be a good fit if he wants versatility from this slot (so he doesn't have to go swap skis in the middle of the day).

The PB&J was so mediocre float for it’s width that I got the Nordica Enforcer Free 104 instead in that width range. Found the PB&J very catchy in tracked powder and don’t find that with the Bibby’s at all. The Bibby and especially the lighter 116/118 Wildcat is much better for it’s width than the PB&J or the 108.

The Bibby and now Wildcat are very popular daily drivers for many at Alta and Snowbird who like to ski the afternoons in crud and still get good float in the morning. Still say it’s not “best in class” float but quite good and great when it gets tracked out. With it’s lighter weight, many people between sizes can ski the 190cm Wildcat now without issue for even more float.

Another ski that would be easy to handle and not suck in crud would be the Rustler 11 in the 180cm. Even my Rustler 9s go through untracked and tracked snow very well for their width and really like the Rustler 11’s too. If I didn’t get the Bibby’s used at a steal, I’d probably be getting a pair of Rustler 11s this Spring for a deal as my powder ski.

 

[Mike Rogers]

The Bent Chetler 120 is actually lighter than the DPS A112 so keep that in mind. Will be insane deals very soon on skis like the Bent 120 in a few weeks with Spring sales.



The PB&J was so mediocre float for it’s width that I got the Nordica Enforcer Free 104 instead in that width range. Found the PB&J very catchy in tracked powder and don’t find that with the Bibby’s at all. The Bibby and especially the lighter 116/118 Wildcat is much better for it’s width than the PB&J or the 108.

The Bibby and now Wildcat are very popular daily drivers for many at Alta and Snowbird who like to ski the afternoons in crud and still get good float in the morning. Still say it’s not “best in class” float but quite good and great when it gets tracked out. With it’s lighter weight, many people between sizes can ski the 190cm Wildcat now without issue for even more float.

Another ski that would be easy to handle and not suck in crud would be the Rustler 11 in the 180cm. Even my Rustler 9s go through untracked and tracked snow very well for their width and really like the Rustler 11’s too. If I didn’t get the Bibby’s used at a steal, I’d probably be getting a pair of Rustler 11s this Spring for a deal as my powder ski.

At 6'1", 185, he might consider the 188 rustler. It will measure a couple of inches shorter anyway.

I sold my 180 11s as I thought they were a big short for me (5'10", 175lbs). They are quite nimble and easy to ski though, but will be less stable on runouts than a bigger ski.

 

[GregK]

At 6'1", 185, he might consider the 188 rustler. It will measure a couple of inches shorter anyway.

I sold my 180 11s as I thought they were a big short for me (5'10", 175lbs). They are quite nimble and easy to ski though, but will be less stable on runouts than a bigger ski.

I’d want them in 188cm but he’s used to 170cm skis so maybe he should try both and see maybe. Could always push the mount a bit forward on the 188cm to make them ski shorter though.
One thing I don’t love about Blizzard is they don’t have a 184-186cm version of their skis as 188cm plus from anyone can sometimes feel long in really tight spaces. I’d love a 184cm Rustler 9.

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

Alta's demo day is April 6th. Maybe I should wait until then and just ski all the things. This is the list:

Pit Viper
Faction
Rossignol
Dynastar
K2
Fischer
Atomic
Libtech
Blizzard
Nordica
Technica
ON3P
DPS
Volkl
Moment
Armada
Salomon

My friend loved the DPS-Wailer-112's in powder, he demo'd both the DPS-Wailer-106 and the DPS-Wailer-112 today. He skis a lot like me, cautiously. I am doing everything in my power not to just buy them and get it over with. But I need to keep looking and testing. (This search has gone on, off and on, for like 3-4 years. I get close to buying, and then I change my mind, but this season has finally pushed me over the edge).

 

[silverback]

DPS A112rp is a pretty popular ski and has decent resale value. I've skied a lot of resort--powder skis and, from all of your posts, I think you'll like it. A lot.

How much would you pay to demo DPS skis? Find a good used pair, make sure they are tuned correctly, and try them a few days in different conditions. Take good care of them and, if you decide to sell them, you'll likely lose less than the cost of one day (two at the worst) of demoing them.

 

[GregK]

That’s great about the demo day! Go to that and try out all the skis mentioned in this thread and then you can purchase them from lots of places during the April sales at huge deals.
You get a deal on the ski you tried and know for sure you liked the best. Win/win!

 

[sullywhacker]

That’s great about the demo day! Go to that and try out all the skis mentioned in this thread and then you can purchase them from lots of places during the April sales at huge deals.
You get a deal on the ski you tried and know for sure you liked the best. Win/win!

Quite likely true about the coming of Spring deals but not sure they will include the Bent 120 >> it's sold out at most shops

 

[Noodler]

Alta's demo day is April 6th. Maybe I should wait until then and just ski all the things. This is the list:

Pit Viper
Faction
Rossignol
Dynastar
K2
Fischer
Atomic
Libtech
Blizzard
Nordica
Technica
ON3P
DPS
Volkl
Moment
Armada
Salomon

My friend loved the DPS-Wailer-112's in powder, he demo'd both the DPS-Wailer-106 and the DPS-Wailer-112 today. He skis a lot like me, cautiously. I am doing everything in my power not to just buy them and get it over with. But I need to keep looking and testing. (This search has gone on, off and on, for like 3-4 years. I get close to buying, and then I change my mind, but this season has finally pushed me over the edge).

If you've been searching this long and there's a major demo day event on the very near horizon, then I know what I would do. Wait for the demo day.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

Alta's demo day is April 6th. Maybe I should wait until then and just ski all the things. This is the list:

Pit Viper
Faction
Rossignol
Dynastar
K2
Fischer
Atomic
Libtech
Blizzard
Nordica
Technica
ON3P
DPS
Volkl
Moment
Armada
Salomon

My friend loved the DPS-Wailer-112's in powder, he demo'd both the DPS-Wailer-106 and the DPS-Wailer-112 today. He skis a lot like me, cautiously. I am doing everything in my power not to just buy them and get it over with. But I need to keep looking and testing. (This search has gone on, off and on, for like 3-4 years. I get close to buying, and then I change my mind, but this season has finally pushed me over the edge).

Something to keep in mind is that unless you get really lucky you’re mostly going to be testing which powder skis you can tolerate using on slush or groomers. While that matters and I do think you can learn from about the skis in that environment, it is not necessarily going to be that predictive of powder performance for you.

I do think the list of skis you hate from the demo is useful.

 

[Noodler]

Something to keep in mind is that unless you get really lucky you’re mostly going to be testing which powder skis you can tolerate using on slush or groomers. While that matters and I do think you can learn from about the skis in that environment, it is not necessarily going to be that predictive of powder performance for you.

I do think the list of skis you hate from the demo is useful.

True, but we are talking the Wasatch here...

I think there's something to be said about eliminating skis you definitely do not like on a groomer when getting back to a lift. It's a different game if you're primarily picking a ski for cat or heli skiing. The "RP" in the Wailer 112RP name stands for "Resort Powder". Funny enough, it was the 112RP's hardpack performance that sold me. I didn't get it into really deep snow until a 2' deep day at Vail. Then I couldn't wipe the smile off my face.

 

[dbostedo]

I am doing everything in my power not to just buy them and get it over with. But I need to keep looking and testing. (This search has gone on, off and on, for like 3-4 years. I get close to buying, and then I change my mind, but this season has finally pushed me over the edge).

Hard to say for sure, but you might be better off just picking something and get it over with, as you say. Sounds like you might be getting into "paralysis by analysis".

 

[Lorenzzo]

Something to keep in mind is that unless you get really lucky you’re mostly going to be testing which powder skis you can tolerate using on slush or groomers. While that matters and I do think you can learn from about the skis in that environment, it is not necessarily going to be that predictive of powder performance for you.

I do think the list of skis you hate from the demo is useful.

This reality led me to avoid the whole process instead of accepting no matter what it's a guess. My suggestion: accept that it is a guess, go with what makes the most sense and then be prepared to repeat. A good reason to go used. But hopefully you'll get lucky.

 

[givethepigeye]

This reality led me to avoid the whole process instead of accepting no matter what it's a guess. My suggestion: accept that it is a guess, go with what makes the most sense and then be prepared to repeat. A good reason to go used. But hopefully you'll get lucky.

^this - also pretty hard to line up a "demo day" and then the snow required to test them. Ive bought 4 pairs of powder skis: Super7s <- loved them in untracked but didn't like them once it was skied out., Liberty Double Helix's <-probably should have kept those, Blizzard Gunsmokes (the 186's) ok, but not great had a lot of rocker tip and tail, Blizzard Bodacious (green tapered tip ones) <- totally like them and every time i think I will replace them, I'm reminded that "they are fine" for a 2 ski travel squad (SR95's and those) + they were super cheap. All of those bought on characteristics outlined in reviews and what I like in an everyday ski.

The lines do get blurred when I start thinking of one 108-110 or so to take on a trip, but you are lucky in that you live in UT.

 

[Mike Rogers]

This reality led me to avoid the whole process instead of accepting no matter what it's a guess. My suggestion: accept that it is a guess, go with what makes the most sense and then be prepared to repeat. A good reason to go used. But hopefully you'll get lucky.

Yeah, buy the ski based on info from trusted reviewers. Ski it. Sell it if it doesn't work. If you sell a barely used ski, you can recover quite a bit. Good demos are pricey.....weighing the cost of 3-5 demos vs the loss on resale X probability of resale (rejection) seems to favor giving a ski with a good reputation a shot.

I have also noticed that I have grown to really like some skis that I didn't immediately click with.

Oftentimes people used to directional, skis with a traditional mounting point have a hard time adjusting to a more centered mount. It doesn't take that long to find the balance point, but it might not come on a one run, or even (consistently) on a day long demo. Eventually you adjust and learn to ski to the strengths of the ski. Then you really like the ski....

 

[AngryAnalyst]

^this - also pretty hard to line up a "demo day" and then the snow required to test them. Ive bought 4 pairs of powder skis: Super7s <- loved them in untracked but didn't like them once it was skied out., Liberty Double Helix's <-probably should have kept those, Blizzard Gunsmokes (the 186's) ok, but not great had a lot of rocker tip and tail, Blizzard Bodacious (green tapered tip ones) <- totally like them and every time i think I will replace them, I'm reminded that "they are fine" for a 2 ski travel squad (SR95's and those) + they were super cheap. All of those bought on characteristics outlined in reviews and what I like in an everyday ski.

The lines do get blurred when I start thinking of one 108-110 or so to take on a trip, but you are lucky in that you live in UT.

I'm on iteration 3 myself:
1. Kastle FX 104 - Great all conditions charger, terrible powder ski for someone over 200 lbs. Separately, it turns out I don't like camber that much in soft snow, but I didn't know that when I bought them.
2. Kingswood SMB - Excellent groomer performance for a wide ski, exhausting in tight terrain (mass + camber). Still turns out I don't like camber much in soft snow.
3. ON3P Billy Goat - Excellent soft snow performance, acceptable groomer performance. Weirdly great at trees and soft bumps if you ski with a centered style. No cons yet (possibly too narrow for a heli day? I get to find out soon for science!).

Planned iterations 4-8 if necessary in no particular order:
DPS Lotus 124/138
Praxis Protest
Moment Wildcat
ON3P Cease and Desist