Need a dedicated powder ski

[Ryan Dietrich]

First, I want to thank pugski.com forum people for pushing me to buy ski boots from a boot fitter. It ended up working out pretty darn well. I still need a few tweaks, but I'm super impressed with the results.

I currently ski on 2014 Volkl Mantra's. I <3 these skis. I have almost 200 days on them so far, and they just rock.......except on powder days. I watch everyone else blow past me, while I seem to slog through. I've tried adjusting my stance (lean way back, lean way forward, try to stay balanced), and it doesn't matter.

A few years ago I demo'd a pair of Ramp Peace Pipes on a powder day and made it to Park City for some runs down McConkey's. It was GLORIOUS. Those 125mm underfoot boats turned and floated in a way that I could barely understand. They ski'd great on groomers too! Of course, I'm an idiot and didn't buy them, and now they are out of business and impossible to find on ebay and whatnot.

Sooo.. I want a pair of DEDICATED powder skis (my mantra's are perfectly fine for a daily driver). And I want the BEST powder skis, I don't care how much they cost. I want a ski that makes ME better, not some thing that I have to be a badass to take advantage of. DPS Lotus? J-Ski "The Friend"?

What do ya'll think?

 

[jmeb]

There isn't a "Best" powder ski. There probably is a "best" powder ski for you. But to answer what might be close to that we need to know a lot more about your skiing, where you ski, what your preferences are in a ski, how many days a year you get, whether you will be touring / heli skiing with said ski, etc.

Otherwise, you're just going to get 1000 opinions on the "best" powder ski that aren't particularly meaningful to you.

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

Fair enough.
* I live in Utah, I have a season pass at Sundance and Alta.
* I ski between 50-100 days a season. (I'm at 40 days right now)
* I ski mostly inbounds, though I'll do the gates at Alta on a powder day (in bounds but not part of the trail map). I like Catherines / Devil's Castle.
* I'm 6'1 185-ish
* I love my mantra's because they seem to absorb a lot of the energy from the bumps in a turn, instead of transferring that energy into my body.
* I liked the Peace Pipes because even in deep powder they "floated" over it, and they were still super easy to turn, which makes no sense to me still.
* I'm scared of a ski that is super heavy that I can't push the "oh crap" and either stop quickly or re-gain control if someone cuts me off.
* I have had two surgeries on my back, I literally ski "not to fall". I don't go crazy fast, and I don't do crazy jumps. I just love to be out there, and enjoy the mountains.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

The category of powder skis is pretty broad. At a high level there are “resort” powder skis that are 110-120 underfoot and have some hard snow performance. Then there are the “Japan/ultra deep/heli” powder skis that are 120+ and are a lot of work on hard snow (they may be able to carve they just want lots of speed and torque your knees). Blister has a really good ranking of these skis in their buyers good along 3 performance criteria - (1) flotation, (2) deep chop, and (3) refrozen crap.

I recently purchased an ON3P Billy Goat and am quite happy. They are amazingly good for a wide ski at pivoting through tight spaces. They are less great than skis with more traditional shapes at carving turns on hard snow. They are also a lot of fun on soft open runs though that is probably not the most differentiated performance characteristic.

You said you mostly ski Alta, I've never lived there so I have no sense if that means you're in the market for the super wide skis or the more resort friendly ones. As an occasional visitor I'm happy owning the 110-120 class because it does seem to get tracked out pretty fast.

 

[Dwight]

Since you liked Ramps. https://www.fat-ypus.com/skis/mens-skis/

 

[Core2]

Ebay some fats with demo bindings and save a lot of money. Most people only ski a couple days per season that truly require the fat skis. This is also why you can usually get good deals on gently used fats on Ebay.

 

[jmeb]

Fair enough.
* I live in Utah, I have a season pass at Sundance and Alta.
* I ski between 50-100 days a season. (I'm at 40 days right now)
* I ski mostly inbounds, though I'll do the gates at Alta on a powder day (in bounds but not part of the trail map). I like Catherines / Devil's Castle.
* I'm 6'1 185-ish
* I love my mantra's because they seem to absorb a lot of the energy from the bumps in a turn, instead of transferring that energy into my body.
* I liked the Peace Pipes because even in deep powder they "floated" over it, and they were still super easy to turn, which makes no sense to me still.
* I'm scared of a ski that is super heavy that I can't push the "oh crap" and either stop quickly or re-gain control if someone cuts me off.
* I have had two surgeries on my back, I literally ski "not to fall". I don't go crazy fast, and I don't do crazy jumps. I just love to be out there, and enjoy the mountains.

Based on this I would look for a medium flexing ski in the 115-120mm range. Ideally with plenty of tip and tail rocker, and significant taper. Tons of options out there. I'd stay with something somewhat damp (i.e. don't get a DPS Pure 3 layup -- lots of carbon ski) because that is the feel you like in your Mantras. In the Mantras it comes from stiffness + a layer of metal. Few powder skis have metal, so you'll want something with plenty of wood plus fiberglass.

The reason something like the Peace Pipe could turn so easily is because of the shape -- rocker + taper. This is far more important in determining how easy a ski is to turn in 3D snow than something like sidecut radius. 3D snow means more pivoting movements and less direct edging/carving.

I would advise against a really pure powder ski since you're inbounds. In reality, you're skiing more soft cut-up snow than untouched powder most days. Skis need to balance the performance of the two. Something like a DPS 138 Lotus is the BEST powder ski -- but it also not much fun once things get cut up or on groomers. Something like a Moment Bibby, an On3p Billy Goat, a Black Crows Nocta, an Atomic Bent Chetler 120, a Rossi Super 7 etc are all much more fitting.

I do agree with @Core2 though. There is not reason to spend a bunch of money on a pow ski. You live in the mecca of used, good pow skis. Save the $500 and spend it on a day of cat skiing.

 

[peterm]

Why not demo again? If you try something pretty mainstream, eg Rossi Super 7, then people will be able to give better advice based on how you liked it.

 

[Vinnie]

Check out the Liberty Origin 112, which replaced the Origin 116 this year. Just spent the weekend in knee to waist deep powder on Origin 116 and had a blast.

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

Why not demo again? If you try something pretty mainstream, eg Rossi Super 7, then people will be able to give better advice based on how you liked it.

So, I went to Deer Valley yesterday and visited Christi Sports. They didn't have any powder skis. It seems to be really hard to demo powder skis here in Utah except for Demo day at Alta, which is obnoxious as it's in mid-april, and some years it's slushy spring skiing by that point in the year :-( ... Most places carry ONE type of demo ski, and it's generally not the types of skis I am interested in.

 

[jmeb]

So, I went to Deer Valley yesterday and visited Christi Sports. They didn't have any powder skis. It seems to be really hard to demo powder skis here in Utah except for Demo day at Alta, which is obnoxious as it's in mid-april, and some years it's slushy spring skiing by that point in the year :-( ... Most places carry ONE type of demo ski, and it's generally not the types of skis I am interested in.

I don't really buy this. You need to go to shops that are focused on the sort of people that ski Alta and Snowbird, not Deer Valley. Someone here will know better than I, but there's no way there aren't plenty of places to demo powder skis in SLC. Try something like the Powder House Ski Shop at Alta.

 

[AltaFan]

I’m not an expert on powder skis, but suspect some of Moment’s skis could be good. Maybe the Wildcat?

https://www.momentskis.com/products/wildcat

 

[jmeb]

I’m not an expert on powder skis, but suspect some of Moment’s skis could be good. Maybe the Wildcat?

https://www.momentskis.com/products/wildcat

The Wildcat (formerly known as the Bibby) is one of the most reviewed and loved powder skis of the last decade.

 

[martyg]

[QUOTE="Ryan Dietrich, post: 330767, member: 3047" I want a ski that makes ME better. /QUOTE]

A wider ski will not make you better.

Becoming a better skier comes from within, and is about dedication to mastery. Balance, for example, can be external or internal: Do you want equipment that holds you up? Or do you want to work on balance skills? The first does not make you a better skier. You will still be the same skier with limited abilities, but with equipment that compensates for those abilities.

The same with a wider ski. Do you want a crutch? Or do you want to develop pressure control skills?

"When you attempt to build capacity on dysfunction, you are actually deepening the attractor state of your compensation. Thus, you are building compensation, not capacity.” - Louie Simmons, West Side Barbell

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

I would advise against a really pure powder ski since you're inbounds. In reality, you're skiing more soft cut-up snow than untouched powder most days.

On a powder day, I am at the resort far before it opens, and I am typically first or second person in line. I generally have first tracks on all my favorite runs, and then leave around 11am as Sundance is pretty tore up. When they "drop the rope" on my favorite area (Bishops bowl), it is a MAD DASH for the best lines, and that continues for about an hour until it is tracked out and people start evacuating to the double blacks and some powder stashes.

So, I get "legit untouched powder", fairly often (especially this season). I don't bother with re-frozen or "crusty" powder. It's just when I do get there, I feel like I'm equipped compared to my "frienemies". Going down the run I can tell I lack the flotation to really enjoy the moment, and to be honest, I live in Utah, if I'm not getting the full effect, then what is the point, right?

Same with Alta. I'm one of those lunatics who will line up waiting for the patrollers to drop the rope at Catherines or Devil's Castle so we can hike up the side of a traverse to blast down some untouched powder. It's really quite wonderful.

I'm not hardcore enough to put skins on my skis and hike up a mountain, but dumb enough to get up super early and fight the crowds for a couple perfect powder runs at my local resorts.

I also basically refuse to buy used ski gear. I buy new, I buy the best, and then I use it until it breaks or I find something better, but in the mean time, I use it all the dang time.

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

[QUOTE="Ryan Dietrich, post: 330767, member: 3047" I want a ski that makes ME better. /QUOTE]
A wider ski will not make you better.

I don't believe that for a second. The mantra made me 1000000000000X a better skier compared to my previous rossi's. I am bringing the wrong tool for the job right now, and all I need to do is get a better tool. The Ramp skis would have fit the bill, but like I said, I was an idiot I didn't buy them before they went out of business.

 

[SSSdave]

What I don't understand is why you are having an issue in powder on a ski with a 96mm waist? Note am not familiar with that model however I read some reviews on Mantras per below and they seem to be rated highly in powder. Though obviously not most ideal ski for really light and deep snow.

https://www.evo.com/skis/volkl-m5-mantra

Most of we older skiers can ski fresh on much narrower boards. You wrote "I watch everyone else blow past me, while I seem to slog through." That would not matter if you made classic powder S-turns so suspect you are one of the younger generation that has only learned to ski powder making few turns planing through snow? Accomplished fresh snow skiers can do either as one must make turns tree skiing.

 

[jmeb]

Okay -- yes you get to ski untracked. But you still end up crossing tracks throughout the day, you need to ski some groomers to get back to the lift, traverses etc. I've been to Alta on a powder day -- it's different than skiing unconsolidated deep backcountry snow that pure pow ski like the DPS Lotus 138 is designed for. You want something with some sidecut so you don't end up doing the spatula splits.

Ignore the fat ski haters. There is a reason fat skis exist. It's not as if Shane McConkey only skied fat skis as a crutch. No one posting here skis fresh snow like Hoji -- and he's almost always on his 112mm underfoot ski. They won't "make you better" but they will make you have more fun. If you believe that the skier having the most fun is the best skier, then by definition they do make you better.

Fact is, skiing good powder on my Praxis Protests is far more fun than my 98mm waisted skis with tip rocker.

 

[peterm]

So, I went to Deer Valley yesterday and visited Christi Sports. They didn't have any powder skis. It seems to be really hard to demo powder skis here in Utah except for Demo day at Alta, which is obnoxious as it's in mid-april, and some years it's slushy spring skiing by that point in the year :-( ... Most places carry ONE type of demo ski, and it's generally not the types of skis I am interested in.

I was almost going to say that you're in one of the best places to demo skis! I was recently chatting to a friend who rented Super 7s when he was staying at the Rustler Lodge at Alta (from the rental shop there). I imagine they will also rent to the general public if you ask nicely. The rental place at the Peruvian also seemed to have a good selection although I didn't check what their widest models were. The demo centre at Solitude seemed to be all Rossi gear. Definitely had Soul7s but not sure about Super7s. Finally, the rental shop right by Hyatt Place Cottonwood had a ton of good stuff. I got QST106 from there for example, and wouldn't be surprised if they had more dedicated pow skis.

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

What I don't understand is why you are having an issue in powder on a ski with a 96mm waist? Note am not familiar with that model however I read some reviews on Mantras and they seem to be rated highly in powder. Though obviously not most ideal ski for really light and deep snow.

https://www.evo.com/skis/volkl-m5-mantra

Most of we older skiers can ski fresh on much narrower boards. You wrote "I watch everyone else blow past me, while I seem to slog through." That would not matter if you made classic powder S-turns so suspect you are one of the younger generation that has only learned to ski powder making few turns planing through snow?

I'm not saying it's a terrible experience. I'm comparing it to the experience with the 125 under foot Ramp skis. Those were amazing in powder, whereas the mantra's do not do nearly as well.

And yeah, I grew up out east, so I learned on ice, I'm not the greatest powder skier in the world.. But again, I'll get on the lift, and everyone next to me on a powder day has skis that are twice as wide as mine, so it's clear they all are doing it right and I' the one who sucks.