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Tim Hodgson

PSIA Level II Alpine
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^^^ Another vote for this analysis. The man speaks the truth. (I cannot speak for those skis.)

"Resort Powder" is different from Catskiing Powder, where you are paying for an untracked run every run.

I still have my soft clown feet Rossignol Super7 in 195cm for Cat skiing. They float so high and fast that I can lean way far forward and charge in untracked snow without fear of ever going over the handle bars. They pivot in tight trees. But at a resort, on the tracked up powder back to the chairlift, they just deflect off of every uneven surface and the wide width under foot hurts my inside ankle bones and knees and they are not that torsional stiff because of the width so they don't carve all that well. That is where a 100mm to 108mm "Resort Powder" ski really shines.

As you know I settled on the DPS Wailer 100RP in the Alchemist (carbon) construction in 184cm. I was told that the "RP" stands for "Resort Powder."

The other skis which I researched but did not demo were the Line Sick Day 104, the Moment Wildcat 108, and the Head Kore 105.

I had NEVER skied a DPS ski before I bought the DPS Wailer A100RP.

I pm'd one of the gear gurus on this forum and described what I was looking for in a ski, mentioned the skis that I was considering, and asked what other skis I should demo and he said:

"Demoing is overrated. Just do your research, pick a ski, and learn to ski it."

Given the ski and binding sale prices which have just started and which will likely continue through the Summer (with availability becoming more of an issue as the Summer progresses), you may want to do your research, talk to your crew, consider what others have said and will say here, sleep on it, and take a leap of faith and just buy it!

As the gear guru said, all skis in a particular category are good, just do your research and make a decision. You really can't go wrong.

Except for going too wide for a Resort Powder ski. But even then you will have scratched an itch and you will have it for Catskiing.
 
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chopchop

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so many skis, so little time
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Love your attitude, @tromano! I am trying to be more methodical with this purchase. We'll see if the self-discipline persists :)

BTW - Basin is tons of fun. A favorite mountain for mid-week bombing for sure.
 
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chopchop

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Good stuff, @Tim Hodgson.

I don't 100% agree with the gear guru you cite, though. I see plenty of value in demoing skis - certainly at mountains that make it easy to swap out quickly like JH (unlimited tests for $10/hr). In Feb I wanted to try a lighter 98mm ski (see what all the buzz was about) and stopped into the tent by Casper lodge. Was back on the snow within 10 minutes with a Head something and withing 60 seconds I knew it wasn't a good ski for me. So I walked back in a few minutes later, grabbed a paid of Bones (which I had read about but never skied) and got back to the lift. Aside from the weight, within 10-15 seconds on snow I knew I was on a very different kind of ski. Within 2 minutes I was charging through chop that I had always avoided before on my 105s, and certainly my 80s, because they just didn't handle it well. It was an epiphany moment: I like damp skis for charging (something I did not previously know). I believe that equipment doesn't make the athlete. But I had proof that equipment was holding me back (yes., could also have been my lack of understanding about the equipment). Did one more run where I landed a small jump - not something I generally try - and it felt like second nature. Demoing gave me this growth opportunity. The irony: I went in there for a light ski and hated it. Came back to grab the heaviest ski they had in shop and I loved it.

So, to say "demoing is overrated" - maybe that applies to folks who really know their skiing style and abilities; have lots and lots of days under their belt; have skied all conditions and are very reflective about their experience with equipment. Folks who know they want a specific type ski to match their specific skill set. That's not me (yet). I'm still learning and the demo process will allow me to learn more about what type of equipment but also what style of skiing (made possible by certain equipment) speaks most to me.

All that said - It's 50/50 that I'll have the patience to wait if a great buying opportunity comes by ;)
 
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chopchop

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Lots of high-quality, thoughtful input so far on this thread. Thank you all.

No one has mentioned Armada's ARV 116 JJ. It appears to have the soft snow bias I'm seeking but is still capable of busting crud. Anyone care to comment on this ski?
 

Tim Hodgson

PSIA Level II Alpine
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Fair enough! I am a firm believer in buying equipment for the particular manuever/terrain/snow condition you seek to learn. The equipment will make that manuever/terrain/snow condition more accessable and enjoyable and, as such, you will seek it out, will ski it easier and the ski will teach you movement patterns which you can then eventually employ with about any ski out there.

There is a reason that slalom kayaks are narrow long and sharp and creek boats are wide and round and play boats are short. And of course, there area boaters out there that can do everything with any of them. But for us mere mortals, a little help from specialized equipment can really help!
 

Crank

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Head Kores are really popular in the SRS at our resort. I really considered the Head Kore series, especially the 2019-2020 Kore Kore 105 as my everyday teaching ski and I will probably get it for that.


The reason I did not buy it for my free skiing tree ski was this statement in an otherwise positive review on the Head website where a guy wished it had a more rockered/releasable tail for tight trees.

I have a pair on the way from Evo. I skied the 105's for 3 days in a row and loved them. Skied lots of trees, bumps, powder and groomers. Fun and easy ski.
 
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tromano

Goin' the way they're pointed...
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Good stuff, @Tim Hodgson.

I don't 100% agree with the gear guru you cite, though. I see plenty of value in demoing skis - certainly at mountains that make it easy to swap out quickly like JH (unlimited tests for $10/hr). In Feb I wanted to try a lighter 98mm ski (see what all the buzz was about) and stopped into the tent by Casper lodge. Was back on the snow within 10 minutes with a Head something and withing 60 seconds I knew it wasn't a good ski for me. So I walked back in a few minutes later, grabbed a paid of Bones (which I had read about but never skied) and got back to the lift. Aside from the weight, within 10-15 seconds on snow I knew I was on a very different kind of ski. Within 2 minutes I was charging through chop that I had always avoided before on my 105s, and certainly my 80s, because they just didn't handle it well. It was an epiphany moment: I like damp skis for charging (something I did not previously know). I believe that equipment doesn't make the athlete. But I had proof that equipment was holding me back (yes., could also have been my lack of understanding about the equipment). Did one more run where I landed a small jump - not something I generally try - and it felt like second nature. Demoing gave me this growth opportunity. The irony: I went in there for a light ski and hated it. Came back to grab the heaviest ski they had in shop and I loved it.

So, to say "demoing is overrated" - maybe that applies to folks who really know their skiing style and abilities; have lots and lots of days under their belt; have skied all conditions and are very reflective about their experience with equipment. Folks who know they want a specific type ski to match their specific skill set. That's not me (yet). I'm still learning and the demo process will allow me to learn more about what type of equipment but also what style of skiing (made possible by certain equipment) speaks most to me.

All that said - It's 50/50 that I'll have the patience to wait if a great buying opportunity comes by ;)

Demoing powder skis is hard. Usually when I demo any ski, I try to ski the same two runs over and over again as I try each of the skis on my list. On a powder day the conditions change so much throughout the day It's hard to have a consistent test and you end up demoing the conditions as much as the ski. In practice its actually better I have found to demo pow skis on a non powder day so that you reduce run to run variability. However this leads to a bias where versatile powder skis are preferred vs. Powder specific skis and you never get to see how the skis shine in their element. Powder skis have Imo been an area where demoing is not ideal. And in the end a leap of faith is almost always needed.

The cost of the demo then buying a ski you know you want before it sells out vs. Buying one you think you will like on sale, and then flipping them next season if its not what you wanted is often sixes.
 
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chopchop

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Demoing powder skis is hard. Usually when I demo any ski, I try to ski the same two runs over and over again as I try each of the skis on my list. On a powder day the conditions change so much throughout the day It's hard to have a consistent test and you end up demoing the conditions as much as the ski. In practice its actually better I have found to demo pow skis on a non powder day so that you reduce run to run variability. However this leads to a bias where versatile powder skis are preferred vs. Powder specific skis and you never get to see how the skis shine in their element. Powder skis have Imo been an area where demoing is not ideal. And in the end a leap of faith is almost always needed.

The cost of the demo then buying a ski you know you want before it sells out vs. Buying one you think you will like on sale, and then flipping them next season if its not what you wanted is often sixes.

Makes sense and may have been the deeper thinking behind the soundbite I pounced on. Thanks.
 

GregK

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Lots of high-quality, thoughtful input so far on this thread. Thank you all.

No one has mentioned Armada's ARV 116 JJ. It appears to have the soft snow bias I'm seeking but is still capable of busting crud. Anyone care to comment on this ski?

The Armada JJ and now the ARV 116 JJ have always been a fun, playful freestyle powder ski. Definitely a soft snow biased ski with it’s deep rocker and shape but with it’s solid weight, it’s not too bad in crud etc. More of a ski that a freestyle skier would enjoy with it’s more forward mounting point in fresh powder. The UL(ultra light) version is a good touring version too.
The Line Outline is another similar ski that’s a blast on fresh untracked snow but less fun when things get tracked or at speed. The Bent Chetler 120 which is much lighter than the original Bent Chetler versions were is another ski that’s very surfy and fun in fresh but less stable in variable conditions than heavier and stiffer options.

With all the talk of demoing gear, any of these lighter, softer freestyle skis would be good to try just so you experience the pluses and minuses of skis like these. Then compare vs much heavier, directional charger powder skis(Volkl Confession etc) and finally skis like the Wildcat/Anima/Rustler 11/Revolt 121 etc. that are more “playful chargers” in between a freestyle and charger powder ski.

Demoing is kinda a crap shoot even with on piste skis due to changing ski conditions and the conditions of the skis tune.Veteran skiers with lots of experience trying skis can tell if there’s a bad tune vs ski issue when trying a new ski. Have had a few demos where it was downright was scary due to the tune.
After demoing and trying lots of skis and really knowing your preferences, you can have more confidence in “buying blind” without demoing skis first. Skis that I have experience with previous or similar models and then seeing their shape, weight, flex pattern and specs, you can make a more educated leap if you see skis on a deal.
 
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chopchop

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With all the talk of demoing gear, any of these lighter, softer freestyle skis would be good to try just so you experience the pluses and minuses of skis like these. Then compare vs much heavier, directional charger powder skis(Volkl Confession etc) and finally skis like the Wildcat/Anima/Rustler 11/Revolt 121 etc. that are more “playful chargers” in between a freestyle and charger powder ski.

@GregK This seems right on target.

Thanks to you and others for taking the time to help me think this through.
 

Rod9301

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Demoing powder skis is hard. Usually when I demo any ski, I try to ski the same two runs over and over again as I try each of the skis on my list. On a powder day the conditions change so much throughout the day It's hard to have a consistent test and you end up demoing the conditions as much as the ski. In practice its actually better I have found to demo pow skis on a non powder day so that you reduce run to run variability. However this leads to a bias where versatile powder skis are preferred vs. Powder specific skis and you never get to see how the skis shine in their element. Powder skis have Imo been an area where demoing is not ideal. And in the end a leap of faith is almost always needed.

The cost of the demo then buying a ski you know you want before it sells out vs. Buying one you think you will like on sale, and then flipping them next season if its not what you wanted is often sixes.
Yeah, this is why you don't buy powder skis. Powder only lasts 1-2 runs.

Buy charger skis that can handle cut up powder
 

ski otter 2

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For me at least, best are skis that do well with both. Even though the unbroken pow is often gone in a few runs, except on bump runs, in trees, in places overlooked, and at areas that have just plane huge terrain, the qualities of a good ski for both - or rather, for a full range of powder day conditions - will shine through, feel best overall for hours, to me. The playful float quality is there, in powder, chop, then through increasing crud.

For example, the Kore 117 189 is still floating, surfing, hours and dozens of runs into the day, on any sort of slope, even though the crud may be heavy, uneven and broken enough to have driven most of the skiers on more flexible skis away, pretty much completely, often. And in the right length and mount point for you, that ski (and others that are similarly versatile) is still not on the bottom; it is 3D surfing with no problem, just pure fun and not tiring, in that gathering crud. Yes, the carving, near the bottom Cochise, Rossi Sickle, SR 95 or 105 is an easy blast too - but it does not have that up and down easy, playful 3D feel, that is for many so much like surfing, or the best of snowboarding.

There are a number of skis that charge crud, but also sort of waste the powder, pretty much, at least to me - cutting near or almost on the bottom. I have a few. The deeper it gets, the less I like that solution, even though it works; I'll choose that surviving 3D feel instead, as it feels more fun to me.
 

DocGKR

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Ski Otter--If you like the 189 Kore 117 for soft snow days, then I suspect you will also enjoy the 115 Enforcer Pro, as both skis are a lot of fun! The Enforcer is heavier than the Kore, carves groomers a bit better, and is a touch smoother. Both are among my favorite resort powder skis and I am equally happy on either one.
 

Quandary

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ON3P Billy Goat, best powder ski I have ever been on. Only issue with them for me is the RES sidecut which makes them a bit squirrely when on anything other than soft snow. Also finding ON3Ps to demo will be a challenge. For those 5"/6" days the Mindbender 108 has enough float to ski those conditions very well.
 
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chopchop

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Big thank you to all who helped me think this through.

Turns out there is tons of good product out there, including all those models y'all listed. I ended coming around to the "just buy some" perspective and grabbing two pairs to ride, compare, learn.

Rossi Blackops 118 @ 186
- selected for its dampness, stability

BlueHouse Maestro 118 @ 189 (Salomon QST 118 in 192 was close behind)
- selected for its short running length, tip splay (floaty), weight, and overall Utah-oriented build

At an outlay of $590 total I agree with @tromano's and @Tim Hodgson's point: I would have spent a big chunk of this on demo fees so the savings (if any) of going that route would likely have been small.

Will mount demo bindings - either attack 13s or griffon tcx - so I can tinker with mount point. But for now, like the rest of us, I just get to steal glances as I pass the closet.
 

BMC

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Big thank you to all who helped me think this through.

Turns out there is tons of good product out there, including all those models y'all listed. I ended coming around to the "just buy some" perspective and grabbing two pairs to ride, compare, learn.

Rossi Blackops 118 @ 186
- selected for its dampness, stability

BlueHouse Maestro 118 @ 189 (Salomon QST 118 in 192 was close behind)
- selected for its short running length, tip splay (floaty), weight, and overall Utah-oriented build

At an outlay of $590 total I agree with @tromano's and @Tim Hodgson's point: I would have spent a big chunk of this on demo fees so the savings (if any) of going that route would likely have been small.

Will mount demo bindings - either attack 13s or griffon tcx - so I can tinker with mount point. But for now, like the rest of us, I just get to steal glances as I pass the closet.
I look forward to the reviews!

I also use wider skis for deeper Niseko days, which I gather is similar to a deeper Utah day. Until recently I used Salomon Mtn Lab - a very traditionally shaped wider (114 underfoot) ski - more a wide touring ski, and now DPS Wailer 112. But I definitely find when it’s not particularly deep I prefer a narrower ski. It’s not like the wider ones can’t carve a turn etc, but the narrower ones just do it better. Until recently that ski was a Salomon QLab, now replaced by a Nordica Enforcer Free 104.

Ill need to go back and check your OP but if you haven’t already a circa 100mm underfoot sii will be good to have at hand for basically most days
 
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chopchop

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I look forward to the reviews!

I also use wider skis for deeper Niseko days, which I gather is similar to a deeper Utah day. Until recently I used Salomon Mtn Lab - a very traditionally shaped wider (114 underfoot) ski - more a wide touring ski, and now DPS Wailer 112. But I definitely find when it’s not particularly deep I prefer a narrower ski. It’s not like the wider ones can’t carve a turn etc, but the narrower ones just do it better. Until recently that ski was a Salomon QLab, now replaced by a Nordica Enforcer Free 104.

Ill need to go back and check your OP but if you haven’t already a circa 100mm underfoot sii will be good to have at hand for basically most days

Yup. My DD is a bonafide 180. Blizzard Magnum 80 ca for groomer days.

These fatties are replacing my 105s.

I'll see if I'm up to the challenge of a review. This community provides good models to follow!
 

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