Narrowing the Demo List: Powder skis for Utah/CO

[chopchop]

Hey Folks,

I'm looking to ID a small number of powder skis to demo next year. Hoping more experienced hands here can help me narrow the list. Thanks in advance for any tips.

Here are the specs:

1. They should be good at both Alta (East Greeley, West Rustler, etc.) and also mellower/slower stuff like Power Mountain aspen tree glades (blues).

2. Other than 1 above, versatility not a top priority. I want them for 8" fresh days and up. Inbounds fresh pow and softer cut up snow. If slopes turn to crud I envision swapping them out for my 98s.

3. I ski easier blacks at resorts like Solitude, Alta. Plenty of room to improve in general, but found some confidence last year at Jackson demoing Bonafides (stability at speed through chop). Planning to build on that experience in steeper & deeper terrain and skiing faster. Bones introduced me to the concept of dampness. I understand it and it applies well to my skiing style, though am not necessarily seeking that as dominant characteristic in pow sticks.

4. 6' 175lbs


Other stuff:

- Current wider ski is Elan spectrum (2014) 105mm 180mm. Was my first ski and can't say I've ever loved it, but I have not been analytical about strengths & weaknesses.

 

[ski otter 2]

Just FYI, to be sure, you do know there are a number of powder skis that handle crud and especially deep crud as well or better than the Bonafides, right?
(I own and enjoy both the Bonafides and fatter powder/crud skis.)

99 width skis I've been on that handle crud at least as well as the Bonafides, also with great dampness: K2 Mindbender 99s; Volkl V-Werks Mantra. (Some say Liberty Evolv 100s and Stockli SR 95s also.)

Some fatter skis I've been on that do well in both powder and crud, and yet would complement a pair of Bonafides:

K2 Mindbender 108; Volkl V-Werks Katana 112 (in both 184 and 191 lengths, + 1 cm or so forward on the 191s, - 1/2 cm or so back on the 184s.)

The newly modified 20/21 Head Kore 117 in 180 or 189 (- 1 cm to - 2 cm on the 189, probably, unless you like extra upright and playful style. )

Dynastar M-Free 118 (20/21) - current 19/20 version unchanged is called the Menace Proto, I believe; and unchanged also, the 18/19 version was called the PR-OTO Factory. Same great ski. Not quite as damp as the others mentioned above, but wonderful feel and tracking.

ON3P Billygoat 117(?) is another.

Skis that are fun in powder but would be good to switch out of when it becomes resort crud are more numerous. One that comes to mind that people are liking for this role is the K2 Mindbender 117, which is a more playful and powder focused ski than the MB 108.

 

[chopchop]

Just FYI, to be sure, you do know there are a number of powder skis that handle crud and especially deep crud as well or better than the Bonafides, right?
(I own and enjoy both the Bonafides and fatter powder/crud skis.)

99 width skis I've been on that handle crud at least as well as the Bonafides, also with great dampness: K2 Mindbender 99s; Volkl V-Werks Mantra. (Some say Liberty Evolv 100s and Stockli SR 95s also.)

Some fatter skis I've been on that do well in both powder and crud, and yet would complement a pair of Bonafides:

K2 Mindbender 108; Volkl V-Werks Katana 112 (in both 184 and 191 lengths, + 1 cm or so forward on the 191s, - 1/2 cm or so back on the 184s.)

The newly modified 20/21 Head Kore 117 in 180 or 189 (- 1 cm to - 2 cm on the 189, probably, unless you like extra upright and playful style. )

Dynastar M-Free 118 (20/21) - current 19/20 version unchanged is called the Menace Proto, I believe; and unchanged also, the 18/19 version was called the PR-OTO Factory. Same great ski. Not quite as damp as the others mentioned above, but wonderful feel and tracking.

ON3P Billygoat 117(?) is another.

Skis that are fun in powder but would be good to switch out of when it becomes resort crud are more numerous. One that comes to mind that people are liking for this role is the K2 Mindbender 117, which is a more playful and powder focused ski than the MB 108.

Super helpful. Thank you.

Yeah - I don't consider Bones a powder ski. It's my new DD, though. I'm targeting 115-118mm widths for this new pair. The Menace's seem right on target. Will look into the ones you noted. Thanks again.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

You can demo DPS skis at Alta (they are made in Salt Lake). I have 11 days on the DPS Wailer 100RP in the Alchemist (i.e., carbon) construction in 184cm including 5 days at Alta/Snowbird. It is the best ski that I have ever owned in the conditions you describe. I am 5' 10 3/4" 195 lbs. You are lighter than me so you may also be happy with the 184cm or you may want to go the next size up in that ski.

I have never skied but would like to ski the DPS Wailer Alchemist 112RP in 189cm. It is the ski that put DPS on the map. I went with the 100RP for tree skiing.

DPS are expensive skis. It is my understanding that they have a sale in July.

 

[GregK]

No powder ski demo list is complete without the legendary Moment Wildcat(formerly Bibby). No other ski near it’s weight has the playfulness and ease in trees with the ability to charge tracked out powder or rip soft groomers at very high speeds. It’s getting an update this Summer which should make it even more stable and damp in crud while still having a very low in swing weight compared to it’s competitors.

Spent 3 weeks in Utah this year and the Bibby’s were my powder ski there and they were awesome as always. Met about 5 other Bibby/Wildcat owners on the lifts during my stay who were also huge fans. If you read customer reviews online or on the Moments website under customer reviews, typical comments are “no ski can be as good as everyone says this ski is but when I tried it, it’s even better”.

2019-2020 Moment Blister Pro / Wildcat | Blister

BLISTER | Featured, Reviews, Skiing | April 26, 2019 | The most honest & in-depth reviews of outdoor gear

blisterreview.com

Blistergear also has a buyers guide with short reviews of many of the powder skis out right now(starting at page 112) with some comparisons between them too. Gives a good idea of what skis you might like for your needs.

BLISTER Winter Buyer's Guide | Skis, Ski Boots, Ski Bindings, & More

The most honest, in-depth, useful buyer's guide on the planet. Honest reviews and comparisons of hundreds of skis, boots, bindings, and more.

blisterreview.com

 

[chopchop]

You can demo DPS skis at Alta (they are made in Salt Lake). I have 11 days on the DPS Wailer 100RP in the Alchemist (i.e., carbon) construction in 184cm including 5 days at Alta/Snowbird. It is the best ski that I have ever owned in the conditions you describe. I am 5' 10 3/4" 195 lbs. You are lighter than me so you may also be happy with the 184cm or you may want to go the next size up in that ski.

I have never skied but would like to ski the DPS Wailer Alchemist 112RP in 189cm. It is the ski that put DPS on the map. I went with the 100RP for tree skiing.

DPS are expensive skis. It is my understanding that they have a sale in July.

Thanks @Tim Hodgson. Very interested in DPS. I see them up at PowMow a lot. Will add the 112s to the list.

 

[DanoT]

Black Crows Atris are 108mm wide under foot, have a layer of metal, are fairly soft, and very light weight.

They are the first ski wider than 100mm that I have really liked because they are so easy to throw around, are damp and not lively and did just fine in cut up snow.

I demoed Black Crows Atris in a 178.3cm length for 2 days this past winter and they were so good that they forced me to buy a pair. They are replacing a 180cm Blizzard Bonafide.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

I haven't skied the Moment Wildcat 108 but it was another other ski which was suggested to me, so it should definitely be added to the demo list.

 

[GregK]

I haven't skied the Moment Wildcat 108 but it was another other ski which was suggested to me, so it should definitely be added to the demo list.

The Wildcat 108 is definitely worth a demo if someone wanted a great daily driver for out West. It’s not going to have a float of it’s bigger brother in deep snow but a very fun and playful ski. It can pivot on a dime in tight spots and very stable through crud for it’s light weight. Even more so than it’s bigger brother, it could use a bit more mass to REALLY crush variable terrain at high speeds.

The Black Crows Anima is often compared to the Moment Wildcat as they have a similar shape and weight but the Anima does not float as well and isn’t as stable through variable terrain. It is receiving some tweaks for 2021 improve float and carving performance but may be playing catch-up again after Moment tweaks the Wildcat for 2021.

The new Dynastar MFree 108, Mindbender 108Ti, Woodsman 108 and Wildcat 108 all great options worth a demo if someone wanted something a bit narrower for more versatility.

 

[jmills115]

I added the Enforcer Free 115 for this season at Alta after skiing the Line Pescado last season on powder days.
The Pescado would be fun for a lighter skier as they only come in a 180cm
My daily driver the past few seasons have been an 18’ QST 106 and the 20‘ QST 106 which I have 170+ days on.
The Pescado wasn’t great for me when conditions got tracked up so I would end up leaving it in the car and used the QST on deep days regularly and it handled 12-18”. The Pescado was fun and if I was under 200lbs think it would have worked for more conditions for me. For a ski that is 125 underfoot, they are easy to get on edge on groomers.
At only 191cm, the Enforcer 115 works for me. I had them out the day Supreme opened for the season and had 15 untracked laps in 15”+. I had them on in 25-30” country club day when a natural avalanche in LCC caught a car at 10am closing the canyon.
I was also comfortable enough to take them out on many days on groomers and they handle crud well.
If I am going to be in the trees off Wildcat or Eagles Nest-North Rustler I would rather be on the QSTs.
As mentioned in posts above, I also have interest in Moment Skis (was thinking Commander 98 or PBJ) and had arranged to demo prior to March 15 and didn’t get the chance.
The demo option in SLC is Kaelin Osmun and he can be reached at [email protected]
I’m not sure what’s available now as he started selling the demo fleet around March 25 but the list below is what he was selling.

Wildcat (190 & 184)
Wildcat 108 (190 & 184)
Deathwish (190, 184)
Commander 108 (188, 178)
Commander 98 (188)
PB & J (182 & 172)
Meridian (181)
Sierra (162)
Bella (162)
Hot Mess (152)

 

[DocGKR]

Since you are already using the Bonafide as your DD, then what about a sweet 188 Rustler 11?

I have been running the 191 Enforcer 115 for the last couple of years as my "deep" snow ski--very versatile, handles chop and crust well, and is a lot of fun in the spring slush. If you want a touch more versatile ski, the 185 Enforcer 110 is a also a very good choice.

I'd also look at the 108 & 118 Wildcats mentioned above, as well as the Mindbender 108ti and 116c, the ON3P Woodsman 108, Liberty Origin 106 or 112, Ranger 107ti, the new Rossi Sender Ti 106 and Squad Sender 112, J Skis Metal 106, Line Sir Francis Bacon 106 & Sick Day 114, DPS Wailer 112.

 

[chopchop]

Great stuff, @GregK. The Blister guides are actually what led me to ask for input here: there's just too much info (a good problem to have). The Wildcats are likely on the shortlist. IIRC they fall into the "awesome in crud, good in soft pow". My initial thought is that I will prefer the opposite: awesome in softest pow, good in medium chop, ok/meh in crud. But this is all just in my head right now. It's clearly a balls-out ski and I'l probably fall for it from what I read. And the billy goat. And the black ops and all the skis I understand are crud-busting oriented Thanks.

 

[chopchop]

Thanks, @jmills115. The Pescado is a unique bird! Great to have Kaelin's email: may come in handy when I'm ready to buy.

 

[chopchop]

Thanks, @DocGKR. I've got some reading to do.

 

[chopchop]

Thanks, @DanoT. I'm not too familiar with BC. Sound like they're on to something. Will see if the Atris has a bigger/wider brother.

 

[jmeb]

Rustler 11 is a really nice ski -- accessible while still having plenty of top end for any mere mortal. It should certainly be on your demo list if you got along with the bonafide.

 

[SBrown]

I just got a Head Kore 117 toward the end of the season, and suggest giving that a whirl. Mine is the 18/19 version, so I can't speak to the newest one, but I started calling it a magic wand. Does so much so well in so many different conditions, even groomed.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Head Kores are really popular in the SRS at our resort. I really considered the Head Kore series, especially the 2019-2020 Kore Kore 105 as my everyday teaching ski and I will probably get it for that.

KORE 105

You can't go wrong with the Kore 105. It's the lightest powder ski of its type on the market. Making it the perfect ski for good freeriders who also like to flex their on-piste muscles.

www.head.com

The reason I did not buy it for my free skiing tree ski was this statement in an otherwise positive review on the Head website where a guy wished it had a more rockered/releasable tail for tight trees.

 

[tromano]

I don't go much wider than about 108 width Nordica El capo for Utah resort skiing. But basin gets more wind effected than other areas and it's wide open so a 10x charger ski thrives here. Areas like you described at Alta with Deeper snow and mellow terrain like powmow Aspens call for a wider ski.

Honestly if you don't care about versatility than demoing may be unnecessary and can get straight to length selection and buying. Any wider 115+ ish ski with a medium flex and nice rocker line and taper in tip and tail will be sweet in powder. Just find one that looks cool and go for it.

 

[peterm]

Thanks, @DanoT. I'm not too familiar with BC. Sound like they're on to something. Will see if the Atris has a bigger/wider brother.

The Nocta is their dedicated powder ski. Good if you're skiing in Japan a lot, and Alta too according to @SkiEssentials

 

[GregK]

Great stuff, @GregK. The Blister guides are actually what led me to ask for input here: there's just too much info (a good problem to have). The Wildcats are likely on the shortlist. IIRC they fall into the "awesome in crud, good in soft pow". My initial thought is that I will prefer the opposite: awesome in softest pow, good in medium chop, ok/meh in crud. But this is all just in my head right now. It's clearly a balls-out ski and I'l probably fall for it from what I read. And the billy goat. And the black ops and all the skis I understand are crud-busting oriented Thanks.

The Wildcats actually fall into “close to the top tier in fresh powder, tracked powder, crud, carving on groomers yet fall into the lighter side of swing weight and being very accessible”. Blister points out that there are indeed powder skis with greater float but they are usually wider and will have other shortcomings like worse tracked snow performance or stability at high speeds etc.

Honestly any 115mm plus ski is going to float well in fresh, untracked powder that you will see for the first run or 2 during a powder day(especially compared to your current skis). The rest of that day and the following days, you are skiing tracked powder or going into the tight trees in search of fresh snow. This is where the Wildcat excels. Forgiving and easy to ski in all conditions but REALLY separates itself after run 3 on a powder day. Heavy crud is a dream on them too where other lighter, softer powder skis struggle.

So it’s not “the best” in all categories but in the top tier in everything and it’s all around performance can’t be matched. The previous version(Bibby) was heavier and a bit harder to ski but was more of a crud charger compared to the new lighter Wildcat. Next years version adds sweight back along with using the better construction techniques used in the Wildcat that should make it the best ever. Already know I’m going to HAVE TO get a pair next season.
It also has the tough, thick bases along with thicker edges that take abuse from hidden rocks etc and amazing graphics that get at least 5 compliments per day. Lol

BTW-The Black Crows Anima (115mm) is the “wider Atris” which I talked about above.

Besides the Wildcat, the Rustler 11 in the 188cm/192cm is also a great, all around performer in all conditions. Not at the level of the Wildcat but it’s more readily available at discount prices and easier to demo. Fantastic 50/50 touring ski too.

@jmills115 I’d skip the PB&J and try the new Commander 98 or Wildcat 108 instead. I owned the PB&J and it was just okay on soft groomers(bad on hard) and the float was worse than most skis 10mm narrower. Great for a park skier who occasionally skis soft groomers and that’s about it. The latest Commander 98 adds some weight and a flatter tail that improved it’s performance. A 190cm
Wildcat 108 would be perfect ski for when you want to retire your QST 108 and try something different.