MTB Project vs Trail Forks vs. ?

[EricG]

What are ya’ll using? I dabbled with Trail Forks, but MTB Project & Single tracks look interesting too..

Thoughts?

Trailforks is now integrated with many new Garmin Cycling units & works with the 520 & 820’s

MTB Project is now going to be pre-loaded on the new Wahoo Element Roam (released today)

 

[scott43]

I have MTB Project on my phone...but for the most part, I go to the same places so it's not really of much use to me. Maybe when I have more time in the future I'll start looking further into it but for now, I'm doing the same stuff over and over. Otherwise I just google what's in the vicinity of where I'm going and see which of those has the best suggestions..

 

[blackke17]

any of these track your progress so when u get lost you can make it back to the truck?

 

[Tony S]

More practically, does any of these apps take care of keeping your screen on while you're navigating, a la Google Maps? Trailforks doesn't, I know that. Between long finger gloves, sweat, wrong glasses, security code (or fingerprint), battery drain, and need for some kind of bar mount, I've more or less given up on these things as theoretically awesome but pragmatically disappointing. @RachelV ?

 

[RachelV]

MTB Project doesn’t do that right now, no. We are in the early stages of planning out a better tracking feature, though, and keeping the screen on (optionally?) could certainly be a part of that. If you’re interested and PM me your email I can see if our designer or PM are interested in chatting... I doubt you’re the only one with that specific set of complaints.

 

[Lauren]

I use both Trail Forks and MTB Project. Neither is perfect, and they have slight variations where some trail systems are better mapped on one than the other. I really only use it to discover new trail systems, read descriptions of trails to find which ones I want to hit, then occasionally use it to get myself out if I get lost. I mostly disconnect from the world when I'm on my bike, but tend to keep my phone with me in case I need direction or for emergency reasons. I'll occasionally run Strava if I want to track my ride for any reason...whether it's just figuring out my mileage and ride time, or recording what trails I've hit.

 

[AmyPJ]

^^^ This.

 

[Tony S]

I use both Trail Forks and MTB Project. Neither is perfect, and they have slight variations where some trail systems are better mapped on one than the other. I really only use it to discover new trail systems, read descriptions of trails to find which ones I want to hit, then occasionally use it to get myself out if I get lost. I mostly disconnect from the world when I'm on my bike, but tend to keep my phone with me in case I need direction or for emergency reasons. I'll occasionally run Strava if I want to track my ride for any reason...whether it's just figuring out my mileage and ride time, or recording what trails I've hit.

^^^ This.

Well sure, but the use case where these apps could be game changers is when you are riding an area that's brand new to you, without a human guide. @Wending and I were in that exact position last weekend. Trailforks helped a lot, but there was also much room for improvement in the experience.

 

[RachelV]

Can you be more specific? Would you like the app to make it easier to (1) research rides in a new area beforehand, (2) find a suggested route once you're at the trailhead, (3) keep you from getting lost once you're riding, (4) track the stats of your ride, or (5) help you figure out which new areas to ride in the first place?

Alternately if you could just be a little more specific about which parts of using TrailForks you found the most frustrating, that would be helpful, too.

Also note that you don't have to spell out any of this if you don't feel like it, but it's hard for me to let this kind of informal UX opportunity go by.

 

[AmyPJ]

Well sure, but the use case where these apps could be game changers is when you are riding an area that's brand new to you, without a human guide. @Wending and I were in that exact position last weekend. Trailforks helped a lot, but there was also much room for improvement in the experience.

Did that last weekend in Vernal, UT. The two apps are behind the times in that area, let's put it that way. I have found that either app is mostly best for the maps on GPS, and even then, they sometimes have varying trail names, etc. So, I rely on them very little. They are more reliable on trail systems that have heavy use, like Moab and Park City.

 

[EricG]

@RachelV - Do you find a certain computer works better with MTB Project? I.E. Garmin vs Wahoo units?

 

[Lauren]

Well sure, but the use case where these apps could be game changers is when you are riding an area that's brand new to you, without a human guide. @Wending and I were in that exact position last weekend. Trailforks helped a lot, but there was also much room for improvement in the experience.

I can definitely see the benefits to an app that gives you a "guide" when you're out riding somewhere new (and there's a lot of room for improvement in this area). I get real tired of stopping and looking at the map, figuring out where you are, and where you want to go. I guess the time consuming part has to do with the fact I don't have a bar mount for my phone, so I keep it in a pack.

 

[Tony S]

Can you be more specific? Would you like the app to make it easier to (1) research rides in a new area beforehand, (2) find a suggested route once you're at the trailhead, (3) keep you from getting lost once you're riding, (4) track the stats of your ride, or (5) help you figure out which new areas to ride in the first place?

Alternately if you could just be a little more specific about which parts of using TrailForks you found the most frustrating, that would be helpful, too.

Also note that you don't have to spell out any of this if you don't feel like it, but it's hard for me to let this kind of informal UX opportunity go by.

I want to be able to start at an unfamiliar trailhead, pick out a route based on a trail map, and then have turn-by-turn guidance for that route. So ... 1, 2, 3, and 6.

Here's the big gotcha. In the northeast, at least, there are almost always tons of trails and trail intersections. Many of the trails are false leads of one flavor or another. So it's not enough to know what the correct turns are; you need to know what the correct turns are not.

Example: I'm at an intersection. There are three choices in front of me. On the MTB map there are only two trails marked. WTF? One of the actual trails is rogue or deprecated or "wrong"'in some other way. The map maker knew that, but I don't. I'm just standing there wondering which way to go and I can't tell. ALL the trails need to be on the map, including the verboten ones.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I want to be able to start at an unfamiliar trailhead, pick out a route based on a trail map, and then have turn-by-turn guidance for that route. So ... 1, 2, 3, and 6.

Here's the big gotcha. In the northeast, at least, there are almost always tons of trails and trail intersections. Many of the trails are false leads of one flavor or another. So it's not enough to know what the correct turns are; you need to know what the correct turns are not.

Example: I'm at an intersection. There are three choices in front of me. On the MTB map there are only two trails marked. WTF? One of the actual trails is rogue or deprecated or "wrong"'in some other way. The map maker knew that, but I don't. I'm just standing there wondering which way to go and I can't tell. ALL the trails need to be on the map, including the verboten ones.

What's the fun in that? It's New England - Two Roads Diverged bla bla.

I'll admit that getting lost in Maine could be problematic. In eastern Massachusetts you'll eventually find a subdivision or Dunkin Donuts as long as you ride in one direction.

 

[coskigirl]

I want to be able to start at an unfamiliar trailhead, pick out a route based on a trail map, and then have turn-by-turn guidance for that route. So ... 1, 2, 3, and 6.

Here's the big gotcha. In the northeast, at least, there are almost always tons of trails and trail intersections. Many of the trails are false leads of one flavor or another. So it's not enough to know what the correct turns are; you need to know what the correct turns are not.

Example: I'm at an intersection. There are three choices in front of me. On the MTB map there are only two trails marked. WTF? One of the actual trails is rogue or deprecated or "wrong"'in some other way. The map maker knew that, but I don't. I'm just standing there wondering which way to go and I can't tell. ALL the trails need to be on the map, including the verboten ones.

While a map maker may have known, it's entirely possible the rogue trail was created by users after the map was created. MTB Project or Trail Forks may not have personal knowledge of any given trail and wouldn't be consciously deciding not to include such a trail. If the apps don't know there is a rogue trail, how do you suggest they confirm that you are taking the correct one?

 

[Wilhelmson]

Google pays people to drive around and take street view pictures. I doubt these free apps pay people to map trails, although a drone could do a pretty good job in the winter.

I've been to this place a couple times. It's a lot of fun and much smoother than our typical roots and rocks (but still plenty). Neither map does the complexity of the trails justice but they would get you going in the right direction.

Good luck following NEMBA's suggested route: For a good exploratory ride print out the Pine Swamp MAP. Then take a highlighter and outline the following route. Head north into the forest from the parking area and turn left at marker 31. Follow that trail to 35 and then to 33, 36, 45, 49, 30, 12, 11, 40, 43, 41, 39, 38, 37 27, 26, 25, 24 and then take the Bay Circuit Path down through 4, 5, 60, 30, 32, 22 & 42

 

[Tony S]

While a map maker may have known, it's entirely possible the rogue trail was created by users after the map was created. MTB Project or Trail Forks may not have personal knowledge of any given trail and wouldn't be consciously deciding not to include such a trail. If the apps don't know there is a rogue trail, how do you suggest they confirm that you are taking the correct one?

Totally don't have an answer to this. I was just responding to @RachelV with my user story. In a user story you don't worry about what's achievable; you just present what the end user wants. Then the negotiations begin.

 

[coskigirl]

Google pays people to drive around and take street view pictures. I doubt these free apps pay people to map trails, although a drone could do a pretty good job in the winter.

I've been to this place a couple times. It's a lot of fun and much smoother than our typical roots and rocks (but still plenty). Neither map does the complexity of the trails justice but they would get you going in the right direction.

I would find it very disconcerting and invasive if I had a drone flying around me while I was out on a trail. In addition, there are laws in Colorado at least which limit drone access to open space and mountain parks which comprises a lot of our trails around here.

Totally don't have an answer to this. I was just responding to @RachelV with my user story. In a user story you don't worry about what's achievable; you just present what the end user wants. Then the negotiations begin.

I was responding first to your statement that the map creators know there is a rogue trail but also to your request for a confirmation of being on the right trail. I truly don't understand how they could do that. What sort of confirmation are you expecting? It can't be based on number of trails or position in relation to other trails. Here on the front range you might be able to reference a specific bench landmark on a trail if it's one that has a specific engraving but that's not very dependable on a larger scale. Moveable or removable landmarks (ie a specific rock or tree) isn't reliable either. I'm just trying to understand what you are wanting, not how they solve the issue.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I would find it very disconcerting and invasive if I had a drone flying around me while I was out on a trail. In addition, there are laws in Colorado at least which limit drone access to open space and mountain parks which comprises a lot of our trails around here.

I feel the same but as far as I know around here most open space is open to drones. More disconcerting to me is google or others stopping in front of my house to take a picture. With kids in the house and the Amazon subcontractors pulling into the driveway to deliver boxes I have reminded them to never open the door for any strangers.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I found the process of submitting a new trail to MTB Project pretty easy. The engineers followed up with questions regarding 'official' nature of the trails (they were official) and parking resources. Around here, we have a lot of social trails and abandoned/illegal trails crisscrossing the legitimate trails. People try to note those in the trail descriptions. This helps when you are in new terrain, but does require either remembering or looking it up on your app when you approach the dubious intersection.

Altogether, I Ilke MTB Project for its vetting of the submitted trails and the overall accuracy.