Mounting my own skis, Should I do it?

[Chris Walker]

I did it once. When I was young and broke and foolish. I made a paper template by tracing the screw holes in the skis the bindings came off of, I used duct tape to block the bit from drilling too deep. Seemed to go okay and I skied on them for almost 2 seasons.

That was the only pair of bindings I ever had break on me. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. Professional technician for me ever since.

 

[Uncle-A]

I did it once. When I was young and broke and foolish. I made a paper template by tracing the screw holes in the skis the bindings came off of, I used duct tape to block the bit from drilling too deep. Seemed to go okay and I skied on them for almost 2 seasons.

That was the only pair of bindings I ever had break on me. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. Professional technician for me ever since.

What binding was it because many bindings that had plastic parts broke years ago.

 

[Chris Walker]

What binding was it because many bindings that had plastic parts broke years ago.

It was a Marker step-in, forget the model. This was many years ago. I was pretty brand loyal to Marker for a lot of years and never had a problem with them except the ones I mounted. I guess it could be coincidence, but I always figured I did something off-kilter and didn't notice. I'm not the world's handiest man.

 

[Eleeski]

Taps cut away excess material. I'm not sure what good would come from heating the tap and the ski materials. Anytime you soften resins, plastic and glues, you run the risk of weakening them.

I've found that cold composites are more brittle and will fracture when tapping or cutting threads. Heat softens the resin and keeps the skins more intact. A ski with some metal will deform - especially if I'm using a screw to tap the hole instead of a proper cutting tap. If the resin is hot, it can move with the deformation better.

Just a technique that has worked well for me with a non standard set of tools.

Eric

 

[Uncle-A]

I've found that cold composites are more brittle and will fracture when tapping or cutting threads. Heat softens the resin and keeps the skins more intact. A ski with some metal will deform - especially if I'm using a screw to tap the hole instead of a proper cutting tap. If the resin is hot, it can move with the deformation better.

Just a technique that has worked well for me with a non standard set of tools.

Eric

If you are working on a bench even if it is in a garage how cold could the ski be that it would be brittle? When working with any material it is best to have it at room temperature at least 24 hours before starting to work.

 

[Eleeski]

If you are working on a bench even if it is in a garage how cold could the ski be that it would be brittle? When working with any material it is best to have it at room temperature at least 24 hours before starting to work.

Room temperature, cold Tahoe garage temperature, hot desert dock - all are cold enough to have brittle resins. My resins soften substantially around 80c (175f) and other resins have better temperature tolerance. Realistically, my screws that I tap with aren't that hot. I like them over 50c (125f) (not smoking hot or blistering on the fingers but too hot to hold). It seems to work at that temperature. If I go in cold, there's splintering in the local area. Even that's OK as the epoxy resin I seal my holes with (plus some heat from the heat gun to get the resin to wick) is pretty good at containing any damage.

While I mount all my snow skis, I mostly mount and fix damaged mounts of waterskis. (Never use anything but stainless screws on waterskis!) So I actually do have a lot of experience - maybe more than a shop if dealing with weird issues. I am, however, a lot slower than a shop at getting a mount done.

Eric

 

[aveski]

The second thing. There is probably a better name for it. I had a heck of a time explaining what I wanted when I bought one.

The first picture is a micrometer and the second is a digital caliper. Old school would be a vernier caliper.

 

[mdf]

The first picture is a micrometer and the second is a digital caliper. Old school would be a vernier caliper.

Wish I had an old-school analog vernier caliper. There's something wrong with my digital one -- it drains the battery quickly just sitting in its case.

 

[mikes781]

Bindings came in today and I have the templates made up. The templates appear to line up perfectly with the binding holes. I’m just waiting on a few things to get delivered from Tognar later this week before I give it a go. Double checking that the binding screw aren’t too long? The ski tapers down to a little over 12 mm where the rear binding holes are located and the screws extend about 8 mm below the binding. There is more room up front.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Bindings came in today and I have the templates made up. The templates appear to line up perfectly with the binding holes. I’m just waiting on a few things to get delivered from Tognar later this week before I give it a go. Double checking that the binding screw aren’t too long? The ski tapers down to a little over 12 mm where the rear binding holes are located and the screws extend about 8 mm below the binding. There is more room up front.

View attachment 100456

View attachment 100458

The screw lengths are good. The ski appears to actually be a bit thicker than many.

 

[mikes781]

Thanks @Doug Briggs . Hopefully I can post some pictures of them mounted in a few days.

 

[mikes781]

Last few things came in from Tognar today so I did a test run with a 1x4. Ended up using vellum paper for the template. Being able to see through the paper made it easy to align with the centerline. The binding holes all lined up perfectly with the template.

Overall looked good. The only thing giving me pause is the rear screws in the heel piece. One on each of the heel pieces is misaligned when it is screwed through the steel frame. It’s as if the hole through the frame was drilled off center. They are probably only off 1 or 2 mm but I guess I have a little OCD in me. Not an issue when I mounted them on the board but wondering what will happen with the metal top sheet. Might drill out the hole in the frame very slightly. Probably over thinking this...

 

[Doug Briggs]

At the risk of a tomato to the head...

It is probably your template or drilling, not the binding frame, that is off. Get out your steel ruler and carefully measure offsets from the center line. This is the best way to verify the accuracy of the template.

To answer wondering about holes that misalign: it just happens. Find the subset of holes that line up without tension/misalignment. If the misaligned holes is withing a small fraction of a mm, then just screw the last one(s) in after the first subset of holes are screwed in tightly. It will stress the system, but not, in my experience, damage either the binding or the ski. If the hole is off more than a small fraction of a mm, you will want to evaluate how far off it is and whether it should be filled and re-drilled.

 

[mikes781]

Thanks @Doug Briggs no tomatoes from me but the screws are definitely at different angles when threaded through the heel piece. The holes in the frame line up exactly with the template. To make sure I’m not crazy or that my eyesight had gotten worse I made and impression with the screw tips in a piece of wood with them threaded through the steel frame and one mark is about 1 mm further back. It’s just the angle that it takes. That screw would end up going into the ski at an angle. Opening up the hole in the binding a little bit would probably allow it to run through it properly. Feel free to chuck a tomato my way if I’m overthinking this.

 

[KingGrump]

As @Doug Briggs posted above. The error is much more likely stemmed from the installer end rather than the manufactured binding track.

Go through your process and see where it went off rail.
If you are using a paper template. Most likely the errors are introduced between the hole marking process all the way through to the hole drilling process.
Do a quick QA/QC analysis for each step involved. Be patient. You'll see the point(s) where the error(s) is/are introduced into the process.

 

[KingGrump]

Thanks @Doug Briggs no tomatoes from me but the screws are definitely at different angles when threaded through the heel piece. The holes in the frame line up exactly with the template. To make sure I’m not crazy or that my eyesight had gotten worse I made and impression with the screw tips in a piece of wood with them threaded through the steel frame and one mark is about 1 mm further back. It’s just the angle that it takes. That screw would end up going into the ski at an angle. Opening up the hole in the binding a little bit would probably allow it to run through it properly. Feel free to chuck a tomato my way if I’m overthinking this.

If the holes in the frame line up exactly with the template. But the holes in the frame does not line up with the holes on the board. Does the holes in the template line up with the holes on the board?

 

[mikes781]

Appreciate the input. I trashed the original template but this is the second one that I had made one the board. You can see the dark spots under the template that are the holes in the board. I’ll run through it all again. I have plenty of wood to practice on before I get to the expensive boards! Was planning on mounting them this weekend when I have plenty of time.

 

[Doug Briggs]

How do you transfer the hole locations from the template to the ski? It could have been slight drill drift that caused the hole to slightly mis-align. In my own shop mounting vintage skis, I had this sort of problem occasionally. I let the final, mis-aligned screw find its home without too much worry.

IIRC, you were going to use a drill press, is that right? That would insure, absolutely vertical holes, unlike freehand drilling.

 

[KingGrump]

Looks like the bottom right hole is a bit off. Am I correct?

Like @Doug Briggs said. Drill bit drift. Most likely.

Practice mount on a piece of wood is good. However, there are differences between the property of wood and a ski top sheet that will have to be taken into considerations. We can address that later.

For a trail mount on a piece of wood. I would use the following process.
(01) Tape the paper template on the wood piece so the relation between the two does not change during the marking process.
(02) Transfer the hole centers through the template onto with a sharp awl. Light pressure only. Be aware the wood grain on the board may drift the point of the awl. Thus the light pressure.
(03) Remove the paper template from the work piece.
(04) Using a very sharp pencil to highlight the awl marks.
(05) Lightly draw a cross centered on the mark with a sharp pencil.
(06) Drill on the mark, using a countersink with a sharp point. This should produce a small countersunk dimple. This should keep the drill from drifting when you start the drilling. The dimple will have to be deeper in the softer wood piece when compared to the harder ski top skin.
(07) Drill the hole using the specified binding drill bit.
(08) Countersink the top of the hole slightly as a final touch.

You can produce a firmer work surface on the work piece with a 2" piece of masking tape.
The non-skid property of the masking tape will be very beneficial when you are working on the real ski. Allow the markings to be seen easily too.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I won't read KG's 'process' so I'll relate mine without influence. ;-) This addresses hole location only. The details of which bits, countersinking, etc. have been addressed elsewhere. I assume the correct tools are on hand and used knowledgeably. The following only addresses how to get the best set of holes possible.

• Find the centerline on the ski and mark it throughout the binding mounting zone. I place a piece of masking tape along the obvious zone, then measure and mark from edge to edge taking into account the variance (usually slight or insignificant) between sidewalls. I try to reference off the edges, just like a jig does. Be sure you have straight edges and the ruler is stationary at all times.
• Determine the boot sole center mark and put it on the ski (again on a piece of masking tape).
• Line my paper jig up, centerline to centerline. I will tape the jig to the ski to insure there is as little variation as possible throughout the next step.
• Use a sharp tool to punch through the template leaving a mark on the ski for each hole. These marks also help keep drills from drifting if freehanding.
• Drill carefully and as vertically as possible (a press helps measurably). Note that jigs have collars around the holes you drill through that help keep the freehand drill vertical.

Something about printing templates. There is a reason they put dimensions on the templates. It is so you can verify you have printed at exactly the right scale. It also gives you a way to validate your punch marks on the ski against the centerline you put on your ski. Measure the marks to the centerline and to each other to make sure they match the dimensions on the ski.

Looking back at KG's post now, I see he mentions a slight difference between holes and template. That is enough (assuming the photo doesn't exhibit too much parallax) variance in location to have a screw tip to make it through a hole. It isn't enough to make me fill the hole and redrill.