Mountaineering versus Mogul skiing

[NikolayK]

Please note I am new user and need general guideline concerning these two types of skiing, more specifically equipment.
If there is/are better forum(s) please redirect - I would not want to hijack general forum.

Here is what I want: be able to ski in mountaineering as well as mogul routes, need to have figured out equipment.
Nothing too radical, think of a beginner for either of the two with prior general experience.
Prior experience - straight forward downhill on skis and snowboard, resort type (no park play) 5 to 10 years.
Owned skis (broken) and own snowboard (good, general type v-rocker).
General Mountaineering (including glacier, ice, rock climbing, bouldering) - few years.

Goal is to get into skiing mountains (backcountry) and mogul (resort type) routes.
Bored going straight downhil, don't like fast speed though.

The biggest question is - is there equipment that can be shared on both types or do I have to absolutely buy everything separately?
Most likely skis would be different, but what about boots?

Note: I do understand that nothing replaces formal coaching and I will look into getting that, but I have some opportunity to acquire good equipment ahead of time and would like to figure out what I will need.

Thanks for your very thoughtful comments!!

NikolayK

 

[pchewn]

Moguls are formed by repetitive multiple skiers going down the same run over and over again. Back country skiing is remote wilderness skiing of untracked snow usually with a group of 3-4 skiers. They are polar opposites of ski experiences. Nevertheless, skills and equipment used for one COULD be used for the other, although sub-optimally.

I can't envision a scenario, equipment set-up, and sequence of events where you could have an enjoyable back country and mogul experience on the same run....

 

[NikolayK]

Thanks. No, I do not expect or plan to have both experiences on the same run. I specifically mentioned that mountaineering would be on backcountry while mogul would be on typical resort terrain.
The question is more about cost effectiveness of the two setups, if that is possible.
Mainly boots - I am not sure if the same good (and costly) boots can be used with two different skis, hence asking.
I am almost positive the answer to skis will be: both different entirely, probably similar answer to the bindings (they attached to skis permanently anyway)

 

[jmeb]

You can tour on anything. You can ski moguls on anything.

However the equipment that is good for one will be not good for the other.

A quick synopsis:

- Skis: This is the part that might be most-commonly shared between the two. A good bc ski is light, maybe around 90mm-100mm wide, tip rocker. A ski like this can ski bumps pretty well, but isn't going to be heavy enough for dampening in less smooth bumps.
- Bindings: For mountaineering you want a lightweight tech binding. Skiing bumps is about the worst thing you can do on a tech binding: no elasticity, no lateral release at the toe. You could compromise with something like a Salomon Shift or Fristchi Vipec, but those are heavy for big mountaineering objectives.
- Boots: For mountaineering you want light, highly walkable, with a rubber rockered sole. These will compromise on the progressive flex and dampening of a good alpine / bump boot.


From a value perspective, spending 1/2 as much on 2 used, couple year old setups will net you better gear for the purpose than a single brand new setup.

As for skiing both in the same run: entirely possible. Pretty common in Europe in fact. Less common here in the states.

 

[NikolayK]

Ok, I figured the light frame or tech bindings for mountaineering - but how heavy is light frame anyway? What is _big_ mountaineering project? My first go to project would be something along the lines of Mt Baker in Washington or similar routes. For moguls something like Winter Park slopes.

I think if there is time I ever go _big_, by then I will figure and use proper equipment anyway. Right now I need to figure out what to start with as being relatively newbuy.

So I am figuring also the mogul type of skiing would require more rigid/heavy both boots and bindings, am I right?

As for the used equipment - I have a way to spend less than full price for new, so the used would be out of interest.

Thanks

 

[Bad Bob]

If the reason for wanting one ski for both is money look for used or demo skis for sale. You will be a lot happier and safer with the appropriate skis and binding for what you speak.
You can find boots with releasable walking positions. They will compromise both BC and bump skiing, but would work for both.

 

[Bad Bob]

If the reason for wanting one ski for both is money look for used or demo skis for sale. You will be a lot happier and safer with the appropriate skis and binding for what you speak.
You can find boots with releasable walking positions. They will compromise both BC and bump skiing, but would work for both.

 

[Ken_R]

Please note I am new user and need general guideline concerning these two types of skiing, more specifically equipment.
If there is/are better forum(s) please redirect - I would not want to hijack general forum.

Here is what I want: be able to ski in mountaineering as well as mogul routes, need to have figured out equipment.
Nothing too radical, think of a beginner for either of the two with prior general experience.
Prior experience - straight forward downhill on skis and snowboard, resort type (no park play) 5 to 10 years.
Owned skis (broken) and own snowboard (good, general type v-rocker).
General Mountaineering (including glacier, ice, rock climbing, bouldering) - few years.

Goal is to get into skiing mountains (backcountry) and mogul (resort type) routes.
Bored going straight downhil, don't like fast speed though.

The biggest question is - is there equipment that can be shared on both types or do I have to absolutely buy everything separately?
Most likely skis would be different, but what about boots?

Note: I do understand that nothing replaces formal coaching and I will look into getting that, but I have some opportunity to acquire good equipment ahead of time and would like to figure out what I will need.

Thanks for your very thoughtful comments!!

NikolayK

Hi, I have used my AT setup in all kinds of snow conditions in and out of bounds. Is it ideal for Moguls? Nope, it works but I am careful when in them.

I would recommend a ski in the 90-100mm range give or take a few mm (on the higher end if you live and ski somewhere like Colorado) that is light but not ultralight (Black Crows Freebird line, Renoun Citadel, G3 Roamr, Line Sick Day, Armada Tracer etc) and a good AT binding like a Kingpin, Dynafit ST Rotation or a G3 Ion (listed from heaviest to lightest). Regarding boots (if it fits well) I would go an Atomic Hawx XTD or a Dynafit Hoji. Ive used both a lot and they are sturdy enough for resort use no problem.

 

[jmeb]

If I was going to ski a tech binding on moguls with any sort or regularity or gusto, I would prioritize a tech binding with lateral release at the toe. That gives you tree options (from heaviest and best skiing, to lightest and best touring): Salomon Shift, Fristchi Tecton, Fristchi Vipec.

 

[tball]

Tech binding are expensive. Would they be warrantied if (when) you broke them in the bumps?

Get these skis and bindings for bumps (assuming the length is good) for less than the cost of tech bindings:
https://www.levelninesports.com/nordica-navigator-80-skis-w-marker-11-ski-bindings-1

 

[jmeb]

Tech binding are expensive. Would they be warrantied if (when) you broke them in the bumps?

Get these skis and bindings for bumps (assuming the length is good) for less than the cost of tech bindings:
https://www.levelninesports.com/nordica-navigator-80-skis-w-marker-11-ski-bindings-1

Yes tech bindings are expensive. But you can't tour on a Marker 11 binding. In general I agree though -- a setup for each use.

As for warranty in bumps -- there is nothing that excludes such in any stated warranty of any tech binding I've ever bought. Frankly, I don't think breaking the binding is the worry. The worry is consistent release. Many tech bindings are incredibly durable.

 

[NikolayK]

Ok, the way I see it my original idea to have one setup is largely dumped.
I see the kind of use is almost exactly opposite to both types of skiing, so the equipment differs.
Thanks to everybody for responding!

The questions will now be more about what is more appropriate bindings, skis and boots for either setup - out of pool that I will have access to.
Frankly I do not have anything for moguls (is that same as carving skis?), but have some for AT.
What is general consensus about brands such as LaSportiva, Scarpa, Dynafit, G3, BlackDiamond, DPS, Faction?

 

[Ken_R]

Ok, the way I see it my original idea to have one setup is largely dumped.
I see the kind of use is almost exactly opposite to both types of skiing, so the equipment differs.
Thanks to everybody for responding!

The questions will now be more about what is more appropriate bindings, skis and boots for either setup - out of pool that I will have access to.
Frankly I do not have anything for moguls (is that same as carving skis?), but have some for AT.
What is general consensus about brands such as LaSportiva, Scarpa, Dynafit, G3, BlackDiamond, DPS, Faction?

Man, all those brands offer some superb gear. It is just a matter what fits your needs / wants best.

 

[Rod9301]

You can tour on anything. You can ski moguls on anything.

However the equipment that is good for one will be not good for the other.

A quick synopsis:

- Skis: This is the part that might be most-commonly shared between the two. A good bc ski is light, maybe around 90mm-100mm wide, tip rocker. A ski like this can ski bumps pretty well, but isn't going to be heavy enough for dampening in less smooth bumps.
- Bindings: For mountaineering you want a lightweight tech binding. Skiing bumps is about the worst thing you can do on a tech binding: no elasticity, no lateral release at the toe. You could compromise with something like a Salomon Shift or Fristchi Vipec, but those are heavy for big mountaineering objectives.
- Boots: For mountaineering you want light, highly walkable, with a rubber rockered sole. These will compromise on the progressive flex and dampening of a good alpine / bump boot.


From a value perspective, spending 1/2 as much on 2 used, couple year old setups will net you better gear for the purpose than a single brand new setup.

As for skiing both in the same run: entirely possible. Pretty common in Europe in fact. Less common here in the states.

The Tecnica guide pro, yellow and black is pretty light, and skis great.

 

[Sibhusky]

My daughter owns plug race boots, but is currently using AT boots (she actually has two pair of the same boot) for both resort skiing and back country. They have interchangeable toe blocks so that she can use them with either tech bindings or standard bindings. Changing the toe blocks got to be enough of a hassle tho (she does both kinds of skiing most weekends) that she bought the second pair of boots. As it turns out, she preferred the AT boots to her race boots for off piste trees, etc. I think they are Black Diamond.

However, she's a true believer in lighter bindings for back country and has a pair of skis for each. She's made converts out of some of her friends who tried to use the heavier bindings that attempt to do both. I know that things are improving in that area, tho.

 

[raisingarizona]

I tour with big fat skis (122mm under foot) and marker dukes since I’m poor and can’t afford a quiver. It’s nice when you want to ski hard but the uphill sucks. Heavy boots and bindings are like heavy rotation weight on a bicycle. It’s a butt kicker. Ideally you want two to four different set ups.

 

[crgildart]

Learn to rip bumps on tele skis?

 

[Wilhelmson]

If you want to rip bumps or are wipe out prone get skis and bindings for it. If you want to ski bumps in control and are willing to take additional risk use the at bindings.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

On boots - a lot depends on how heavy your boots can be for touring. If you are talking really big days 1,500 gram boots might feel heavy but there are quite a few 1,500 gram boots that are not terrible in resort and walk well. Examples: Scarpa Maestrale RS, Atomic Hawx XTD, Technica Zero G series.

Versus a dedicated alpine boot you are usually losing quality of flex (AT boots are less progressive and have more of a "wall") and harsher snow feel. They are also much harder to get someone to punch if you have weird feet.

 

[Rod9301]

On boots - a lot depends on how heavy your boots can be for touring. If you are talking really big days 1,500 gram boots might feel heavy but there are quite a few 1,500 gram boots that are not terrible in resort and walk well. Examples: Scarpa Maestrale RS, Atomic Hawx XTD, Technica Zero G series.

Versus a dedicated alpine boot you are usually losing quality of flex (AT boots are less progressive and have more of a "wall") and harsher snow feel. They are also much harder to get someone to punch if you have weird feet.

New at boots made with grilamid are really easy to punch.