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Mountain Biking 2020

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ZionPow

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I took Pow Dog for a 10 mile ride near Snowbasin today. The fall colors are starting!
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Tom K.

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If you weren’t following the Grim Donut, pt 2 has just been released. For those noodling about why bike manufacturers keep making tiny adjustments to a known end game, well, the Grim Donut applied the changes in geometry from the last ten years again in one step.

Entertaining, worth watching, and a pro racer went really, really fast. In two parts, with your evening bourbon.

Interesting, but “Would I ride this bike every day? Absolutely not,'' said Yoann after his run on the Grim Donut. ''The way it is right now, the geometry isn't pleasant. When you pedal, you're going to hit them on the ground. And it doesn't corner properly, but it works when you go super fast.''

I guess I'm a xc-ish trail rider at heart, even if my preference is chunky trails.

Every time I ride a more modern bike that is (too) slack and fit with a steep STA, I come away unimpressed.

Fast downhill, but kind of boring everywhere else in the steering department.

Great when slogging up super-steep pitches at a 60 cadence, but poor pedaling power everywhere else.
 

Erik Timmerman

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If you weren’t following the Grim Donut, pt 2 has just been released. For those noodling about why bike manufacturers keep making tiny adjustments to a known end game, well, the Grim Donut applied the changes in geometry from the last ten years again in one step.

Entertaining, worth watching, and a pro racer went really, really fast. In two parts, with your evening bourbon.



Fascinating, and not too surprising.
 
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nay

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Interesting, but “Would I ride this bike every day? Absolutely not,'' said Yoann after his run on the Grim Donut. ''The way it is right now, the geometry isn't pleasant. When you pedal, you're going to hit them on the ground. And it doesn't corner properly, but it works when you go super fast.''

I guess I'm a xc-ish trail rider at heart, even if my preference is chunky trails.

Every time I ride a more modern bike that is (too) slack and fit with a steep STA, I come away unimpressed.

Fast downhill, but kind of boring everywhere else in the steering department.

Great when slogging up super-steep pitches at a 60 cadence, but poor pedaling power everywhere else.

I don’t think we’ll be on 57° head angles any time soon (the huck to flat video is head tube scary). does perhaps point out that DH racers aren’t really on race bikes.

6 seconds over 2 minutes is huge, and that was compared to a 63° HA bike.

It also points out that manufacturers are giving us mini steps so we buy a lot of bikes along the way. Half degree here, few millimeters there.

The middle seems to be eroding - we’re headed down to 100-120mm travel, slack but not enduro on one end, and super enduro on the other.

I put my new Fox SLS 600 in/lb coil (up from 550) on with the new Cascade link that increased rear travel from 150 to 160mm. Spent last weekend ripping around Hartman Rocks with my sons and others from the Western mtb team.

Came back and dropped 5 seconds off my fastest time on the short tech trail Nachos at Ute Valley. That’s a ton. Bike is still whip fast, all upside optimization.

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Erik Timmerman

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It also points out that manufacturers are giving us mini steps so we buy a lot of bikes along the way. Half degree here, few millimeters there.

I don't think it's that. I think it's because they know that if they go crazy they will end up with a bunch of unsold "ahead of their times" bikes. How many Pole bikes do you see on the trails. I can't necessarily think of one now, but there have for sure been "too slack" bikes that nobody bought which would seem "too steep" today.
 

nay

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I don't think it's that. I think it's because they know that if they go crazy they will end up with a bunch of unsold "ahead of their times" bikes. How many Pole bikes do you see on the trails. I can't necessarily think of one now, but there have for sure been "too slack" bikes that nobody bought which would seem "too steep" today.

I wonder that the average consumer understands any of this. One answer we seem to know for certain is that bikes were too small, since all of them are a lot bigger (longer). Now what?
 

nay

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Some pics from last weekend. None of which are me.

Maybe what we see in bikes is a lot like skiing, race vs. free ride and the fairly radical preferences between the two and bikes trying to have it both ways.

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Tom K.

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I put my new Fox SLS 600 in/lb coil (up from 550) on with the new Cascade link that increased rear travel from 150 to 160mm. Spent last weekend ripping around Hartman Rocks with my sons and others from the Western mtb team.

Came back and dropped 5 seconds off my fastest time on the short tech trail Nachos at Ute Valley. That’s a ton. Bike is still whip fast, all upside optimization.

Okay, IMO, from your postings about your continuing progression:

2 seconds coil shock, 2 seconds YOU, and 1 second more travel.

One answer we seem to know for certain is that bikes were too small, since all of them are a lot bigger (longer). Now what?

QFT.

QFT again.

I had a lifelong dirt biking background when I started mtb in (ahem) 88. My first thought was "these things are stupidly small for fast single track riding".

Even now, being 6'2" and always on an XL bike, I end up with unfashionably long (80 mm) stems, because, when I stand up, I DON'T WANT MY HANDS IN MY LAP!
 

tball

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So, on my next bike, I guess should resist sizing down because these new bikes feel so big? At five-ten and a half, it seems like I'm between an M and an L in a lot of bikes.
 

nay

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So, on my next bike, I guess should resist sizing down because these new bikes feel so big? At five-ten and a half, it seems like I'm between an M and an L in a lot of bikes.

The reach/stack (rider area distance) is generally pretty important. A small today is yesterday’s medium, so you actually want to be careful. I’m 6’2” and on what would be XL on my Evo (the S3), and low stack and 495mm reach with 50mm stem I developed a really bad left shoulder knot and some kneck pain.

I reduced stem to 40mm and slightly altered backsweep on my bars and all is perfect. So buy the size you need, which may very well be medium, bearing in mimd that you can keep a longer frame with stem and handlebar adjustment to adjust RAD.

@Tom K. - you sound like a perfect candidate for the longer bike shorter stem, but still trail bike. The level at which the stumpy evo is better for me than the ST everywhere is not subtle...both very much still “trail” bikes.

Also, mountain bikes just aren’t made for tall people. Or maybe better said, if you have inseam length issues with buying jeans, you’re probably going to be messing with stem and handlebar rise whether you want to or not.
 
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nay

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Okay, IMO, from your postings about your continuing progression:

2 seconds coil shock, 2 seconds YOU, and 1 second more travel.

:roflmao:

I’ll buy that. Was achieved after a weekend of double black tech riding with a bunch of 20 year old lunatics.
 

Ken_R

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So, on my next bike, I guess should resist sizing down because these new bikes feel so big? At five-ten and a half, it seems like I'm between an M and an L in a lot of bikes.

You would definitely be a L in a Santa Cruz but a M in a Yeti SB130 for example. I would generally look at size L bikes. Here in Colorado we got very long and rocky descents. The shorter bikes feel MUCH sketchier in that terrain.
 

Ken_R

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New bike day. The new Hightower is unreal. Did not expect a huge difference but its significant. The rear suspension works much better. When climbing the new one rides higher in the travel than the old one without the need to increase rear shock air pressure over recommended. The new rear susp. is plusher than the v1 overall but pedals a bit better. Very nice balance. The new Fox 36 Performance has the Grip damper (not the grip2 obviously) and it is simple but feels noticeably plusher off the top compared to my 2018 Performance Elite with the Fit4. Again, without the need to deviate too much from rec. air pressure.
 

Doug Briggs

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The forest floor is putting on the fall colors.

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As are the aspen...

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The usual photo op looking towards Breck. Late, smoky light hides the area well.

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One of many interpretive signs in the 'hood. This one explains dredging and the legacy of dredge rock. I guess I should have taken a picture of the sign, right?

Edited to add:
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tball

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The reach/stack (rider area distance) is generally pretty important. A small today is yesterday’s medium, so you actually want to be careful. I’m 6’2” and on what would be XL on my Evo (the S3), and low stack and 495mm reach with 50mm stem I developed a really bad left shoulder knot and some kneck pain.

I reduced stem to 40mm and slightly altered backsweep on my bars and all is perfect. So buy the size you need, which may very well be medium, bearing in mimd that you can keep a longer frame with stem and handlebar adjustment to adjust RAD.
You would definitely be a L in a Santa Cruz but a M in a Yeti SB130 for example. I would generally look at size L bikes. Here in Colorado we got very long and rocky descents. The shorter bikes feel MUCH sketchier in that terrain.
Thanks. I'll demo for sure.

We are also lucky to be in the land of many great local bike shops. My surefire plan to get the right size for my last couple of bikes has been to just go to Wheat Ridge, calling ahead to make an appointment with one of their fit guys who also sell bikes and buy a fit along with the bike. Best money ever spent, especially if you keep your bikes forever.

So, is the normal $250 bike fit I've done enough? Or, does anyone know if the Retul magic machine is worth the extra $100?

 

Ken_R

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Thanks. I'll demo for sure.

We are also lucky to be in the land of many great local bike shops. My surefire plan to get the right size for my last couple of bikes has been to just go to Wheat Ridge, calling ahead to make an appointment with one of their fit guys who also sell bikes and buy a fit along with the bike. Best money ever spent, especially if you keep your bikes forever.

So, is the normal $250 bike fit I've done enough? Or, does anyone know if the Retul magic machine is worth the extra $100?


I did a Retul fit when I had my road bike and it didnt deviate much from the fit I had done by look/feel/experience but it is a solid fit system. The only thing that was way off was my saddle. I was using one that was way too narrow for me. For the MTB I would not do it unless you have specific fit issues. You can demo several sizes and you will know right away what will work best for you. I demoed an L and an XL and the XL felt instantly much better everywhere although on very tight switchbacks it was more of a handful.
 

Tom K.

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New bike day...The new Fox 36 Performance has the Grip damper (not the grip2 obviously) and it is simple but feels noticeably plusher off the top compared to my 2018 Performance Elite with the Fit4.

The Fit4 is not Fox's best work in terms of trail plushness. Best reserved for racing applications, where a lockout is mandatory.

The usual photo op looking towards Breck. Late, smoky light hides the area well.

We've busted 500 AQI a couple times in the last week here in OR. Your light is great! ogsmile

Or, does anyone know if the Retul magic machine is worth the extra $100?

I've been Re-tooled (ha). Great results. IMO, it does a great job of backstopping the qualitative nature of a professional fit.
 
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