mostly wine stuff

[jmeb]

You wouldn't try to fool me, would you? Seriously, no grapefruit?

Honestly -- I didn't get the grapefruit citrus out of this one. Flowers, wet stone, lemon zest -- but nothing that harsh. Then again, I had run a bunch of miles, biked a bunch of miles and was enjoying it in post-thunderstorm bliss.

 

[Tony S]

So ... this was one of those wines. Opened. Had one small glass. Fine. Something came up. Pumped it up. Didn't get back to it for two days. Had half a glass. Fine. (Okay, already this is weird, because wine doesn't usually lat that long at my house.)

Another 32 hours go by. Have the remaining 3/4 bottle at dinner. OMG, this stuff is freaking old school Piedmont farmer nectar! How could I not have noticed? Anyway, all's well that ends well.

Moral of the story: Give it a chance.

P.S. Any estate with a label THAT un-reconstructed must have something going on.

https://www.simplybetterwines.com/sandri-elio---cascina-disa.html

 

[doc]

@Tony S: a bit more background on that wine.

https://www.chambersstwines.com/Articles/5534/elio-sandri-italian-for-uncompromising

 

[Tony S]

@Tony S: a bit more background on that wine.

https://www.chambersstwines.com/Articles/5534/elio-sandri-italian-for-uncompromising

Have you had other wines from this producer?

 

[Tony S]

In about 1985 I worked in a big, well-known wine store where we got in a shipment of a maybe five or six cases of 1982 Giacomo Conterno Barbera "Cascina Francia." Now, you gotta remember that in 1985 you couldn't give away a bottle of Barbera. It was really an ugly step child, and for good reason: Most of it was horrid overly acidic stuff, so rustic that it tasted like cider left in the fridge too long. So we were selling it for - I'm pretty sure - $3.99. Not a typo.

After a while someone actually opened a bottle and ... Wait. What is this stuff? No one had ever tasted Barbera like this. Balanced, long, sophisticated, rich, nuanced, powerful. Well, being young and inexperienced I just thought: Shit, I can sell this stuff! So I did. And so did my colleagues. We took three or four bottles home, too. At that price, why not?

Needless to say we sold through the stock in a couple of weeks and ordered a bunch more. It came. It wasn't the same. Not even close. The new stuff tasted like like, well, Barbera. Customers knew it, too; we still had some in the warehouse when I moved on to a different city.

To this day it's still a mystery. What was in those first bottles? For a while I wondered if it was mislabeled Barolo. Recall that 1982 was a hot year, and even Nebbiolo had ripe flavors and fruit. In hindsight, I don't think so. Wouldn't one of us have said, "This is more like Nebbiolo?" So what was it?

Whatever it was, it was an unforgettable experience I'll always cherish. Note that the Conterno Barbera now starts at something like $80 a bottle. Way out of my price range. Oh well.

 

[pete]

@jmeb

FYI,

Interesting BBC story on some old grape DNA compared to today's grape. French Sav Blanc one of them

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48549430

 

[doc]

Have you had other wines from this producer?

No, but will be looking for some.
Am biased towards Andrea Sottimano's wines, if I'm in a Piedmont mood. We sell a lot of it thru a couple of little wine shops in CO, and he visits us on an annual basis.

http://www.sottimano.it/en/our-company/

 

[LKLA]

Drank two bottles of this little gem this evening. Some of the best Pinot being produced in the US.

 

[Uncle-A]

This is a good summer wine.

 

[Uncle-A]

We found this cab is a pleasure to drink.

 

[mdf]

Went off my reflux-recovery diet for a nice Father's day dinner. Hess collection "Lion Tamer."


Malbec, zin, petite syrah with a little cab, petit verdot, mourvedre.
Wow, that is good. Elegance and power.

 

[Scruffy]

Brilliant with Basque fish stew.

 

[Tony S]

Brilliant with Basque fish stew.

Nice package

 

[mdf]

Went to Pain d'Avignon in Hyannis (CapeCod,Mass, next to tbe airport oddly enough). A very nice Gigondas. [Try getting that through auto correct].
I was surprised the grapes and proportions are listed -_- 80 % Grenache, 20 Syrian.
Makes me wonder why I don't drink more French wine.

 

[mdf]

...but there is some cool stuff coming out of California, too.

 

[skibob]

...but there is some cool stuff coming out of California, too.
View attachment 77019

To be fair, there are 2 acres of Charbono planted in Napa Valley. Dennis Fife saved one of them in the 90s. Paid for that "mistake" (and many others, to be fair) by losing his winery.

 

[mdf]

To be fair, there are 2 acres of Charbono planted in Napa Valley. Dennis Fife saved one of them in the 90s. Paid for that "mistake" (and many others, to be fair) by losing his winery.

I didn't now it was that small, or the Fife connection.

I became aware of it at a recent - ish store tasting, and then saw this in a "Drinking with Esther" newsletter (SF Chronicle columnist Esther Mobley)

"I've got a bit of a Charbono haul right now, since I just wrote a big story on that grape variety — and I am excited to crack a few bottles open for my 4th of July barbecue. Charbono is a tannic, medium-acid red grape that’s reminiscent in some ways of Dolcetto or Mondeuse, with lots of deliciously bold fruit flavors and rustic textures. Although it has a long history in California, it’s fast going the way of the dodo, with fewer than 80 acres remaining statewide, most of them in Calistoga. I loved getting to know the small-but-mighty group of farmers and winemakers who are passionate about this grape and working hard to ensure it stays alive. Moreover, Charbono is a fundamentally American grape — all the more reason to drink it on this most American of holidays."

 

[skibob]

I didn't now it was that small, or the Fife connection.

I became aware of it at a recent - ish store tasting, and then saw this in a "Drinking with Esther" newsletter (SF Chronicle columnist Esther Mobley)

"I've got a bit of a Charbono haul right now, since I just wrote a big story on that grape variety — and I am excited to crack a few bottles open for my 4th of July barbecue. Charbono is a tannic, medium-acid red grape that’s reminiscent in some ways of Dolcetto or Mondeuse, with lots of deliciously bold fruit flavors and rustic textures. Although it has a long history in California, it’s fast going the way of the dodo, with fewer than 80 acres remaining statewide, most of them in Calistoga. I loved getting to know the small-but-mighty group of farmers and winemakers who are passionate about this grape and working hard to ensure it stays alive. Moreover, Charbono is a fundamentally American grape — all the more reason to drink it on this most American of holidays."

I was told 2 acres several year ago. It may be a little more than that, but no way it is "most of" 80 acres! I know of a few acres in Lodi, and a few more in Mendocino, and I am sure there must still be some planted in the central valley.

 

[mdf]

I was told 2 acres several year ago. It may be a little more than that, but no way it is "most of" 80 acres! I know of a few acres in Lodi, and a few more in Mendocino, and I am sure there must still be some planted in the central valley.

Well, technically two is fewer than 80!

The Summers winery site downgrades from "most" to "half":
"Now there are only 80 acres of Charbono planted in California, half of which are in Calistoga. ...only 16 wineries produce Charbono; with Summers Estate Wines ...producing the largest amount of this special wine annually - about 900 cases."

The vineyard on the label is 22 acres and also grows Zin and Cab, so the Charbono would be well less than 22. What's a typical # of cases per acre?

edit - looked up my own question. Typically 120 to 600, so 900 cases = 1.5 to 7.5 acres.

 

[skibob]

Well, technically two is fewer than 80!

The Summers winery site downgrades from "most" to "half":
"Now there are only 80 acres of Charbono planted in California, half of which are in Calistoga. ...only 16 wineries produce Charbono; with Summers Estate Wines ...producing the largest amount of this special wine annually - about 900 cases."

The vineyard on the label is 22 acres and also grows Zin and Cab, so the Charbono would be well less than 22. What's a typical # of cases per acre?

edit - looked up my own question. Typically 120 to 600, so 900 cases = 1.5 to 7.5 acres.

Yeah, and Napa Valley is well on the low end of production per acre. Charbono can overcrop if allowed to, but those are old vines. I'd be surprised if its more than 4 tons/acre (about 160 cses per acre) and its likely considerably less. Napa wineries maintain small crops and tend not to use the heavy press fractions. This will result in maybe 120 to 140 gallons per ton max. You can get 160-185, even pushing 200 gallons/ton out of juicy, thin skinned grapes. But you won't find grapes like that in Napa and at the high end of that volume it takes a screw press to get those yields (which you also won't find in Napa lol).