More sad avalanche death news.

[doc]

https://www.9news.com/article/news/...butte/73-0c816e9e-6831-4cae-a11f-08abf71e6629

 

[James]

Sad. I guess Death Pass lived up to its name.

 

[Mike King]

Very sad. That being said, I don't know what these folk were thinking -- there was a special avalanche warning for the area on the CAIC forecast site yesterday and today.

Mike

 

[Mike King]

https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/acc/acc_report.php?acc_id=704&accfm=rep&view=public

 

[Mike King]

The CAIC report is out.

https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/acc/acc_report.php?acc_id=705&accfm=rep

 

[tball]

From the Colorado Sun:

Greene said it’s unusual that someone is killed in a backcountry avalanche they didn’t trigger.

“That’s different than the usual accidents that we have,” he told The Colorado Sun. “That’s something with more and more people in the backcountry we are worried about. It’s especially important in a year like this (with so much snowfall) to think about who’s around you and if you’re putting somebody else at risk.”

The San Miguel Sheriff’s Office tweeted late Tuesday that the slide poured into Bear Creek from somewhere around Temptation Bowl, which borders Telluride ski area but is separated by a boundary rope preventing access. Temptation Bowl has been the location of several avalanche fatalities dating back to the late 1980s.
The sheriff office’s tweet said the slide appeared to originate near Tempter Chute, just below the Telluride ski area boundary and the slide was “believed to be caused by snowboarders skiing off the Telluride ski area into the Bear Creek Preserve.”

“We certainly have talked with them and the investigation on their access and location is something we are looking at,” said San Miguel Sheriff’s Office spokeswoman Susan Lilly.
https://coloradosun.com/2019/02/20/...ming-colorados-5th-avalanche-death-of-season/
​

 

[jmeb]

For other's clarity:

This thread started out about an accident that killed two people outside Crested Butte (on the Grand Traverse route). This is the Bush Creek / Death Pass event.

It also has links to a separate incident that occurred later where a tourer was killed after someone set off an avalanche several thousand feet above them and it ran to the valley floor. This is the Bear creek incident.

The Bear Creek accident in Telluride is a particularly complex accident to wrap your head around. It involves someone skiing an area you can access from the resort. Whether they ducked a rope or went out an open gate and traversed, it is possible terrain to get to from the resort and is not a permanent closure. That person set off an avalanche that traveled through a complex terrain path (i.e. probably not the path they were going to ski down anyway) and killed someone who was touring on a trail in the valley 2000' below. The person who set it off could likely not have known there was anyone below, and even if they skied down that way would've gotten no sign as the person was buried without an avalanche beacon. The person below was really really unlucky to be in the wrong narrow slide path at the wrong time. I wouldn't be surprised if this leads a permanent closure of skiing in the Bear Creek area similar to what currently exists for the 7 Sisters on Loveland pass.

Two distinct accidents with very different lessons to learn from.

 

[Primoz]

From the Colorado Sun:

Greene said it’s unusual that someone is killed in a backcountry avalanche they didn’t trigger.
“That’s different than the usual accidents that we have,” he told The Colorado Sun.​

While I agree, majority of victims trigger avalanche themself, I still don't consider this sort of even as unusual. At least around here (Alps in general, that means France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria and Slovenia, not specific country), there's several accidents every year, when group or single skier is involved in avalanche that another group/skier high above them triggered. It's pretty bad, as you can do everything right, but you still end up in avalanche, but it's not that unusual for me.

 

[Mike King]

One of the factors in skiing complex terrain is safe travel in avalanche terrain. In my level 1 avalanche course, there was very little about safe skiing, and nothing about not skiing on top of other groups. When I was with @Mattadvproject in Kashmir, we were taught a lot about safe travel in avalanche terrain, and it was really necessary given the terrain we were skiing and the groups of other skiers who might be impacted by our decisions above.

I guess my point is that I suspect folk who are getting into backcountry skiing may not have been sufficiently exposed to this topic. And the Bear Creek death is really tragic.

Mike

 

[jmeb]

In my level 1 avalanche course, there was very little about safe skiing, and nothing about not skiing on top of other groups.

Out of curiosity when did you take your Avy 1? Because this does not correspond with my experience with an AAIRE 1 three years ago and based on conversations with instructors the most recent curriculum revisions goes even further into decision making and safe travel in avalanche terrain.

 

[jmeb]

While I agree, majority of victims trigger avalanche themself, I still don't consider this sort of even as unusual. At least around here (Alps in general, that means France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria and Slovenia, not specific country), there's several accidents every year, when group or single skier is involved in avalanche that another group/skier high above them triggered. It's pretty bad, as you can do everything right, but you still end up in avalanche, but it's not that unusual for me.

I think this is more illustrative of the differences in avalanche incidents between Europe and North America. With open boundaries, huge complex terrain, mitigation only for pistes and things that will affect pistes, and lots of people skiing it, the likelihood of people triggering avalanches that affect others seems greater in Europe.

 

[Mike King]

Out of curiosity when did you take your Avy 1? Because this does not correspond with my experience with an AAIRE 1 three years ago and based on conversations with instructors the most recent curriculum revisions goes even further into decision making and safe travel in avalanche terrain.

Last year. I guess the real issue was that our course was at a time with a very nasty snowpack -- it was facets from the top to the bottom. So there just was not a lot of skiing where one might identify islands of safety and skiing between them. It's just a very different experience taking a 3 day course, with 2 days in the field, of which 1 day is spent on beacon search and snow analysis, and 2 weeks skiing avalanche terrain.

I guess the real point is that learning safe travel is not something that comes in a Avalanche 1 course. It's going to take time, and you need more experienced companions to help you on your way.

Mike

 

[jmeb]

I guess the real point is that learning safe travel is not something that comes in a Avalanche 1 course. It's going to take time, and you need more experienced companions to help you on your way.

Huh. While I agree more travel and experience is critical to operating in avalanche terrain -- how to travel in avalanche terrain safely including route selection, consequence and risk management for your party and others -- are all part of AIARE level 1 curriculum.

No it's not 2 weeks of touring. But that course should (and did in my experience) deliver the fundamentals and good operating principles.

 

[Primoz]

@jmeb just one thing... with this what I wrote, it's mostly, if not exclusively, for ski touring. I honestly don't remember many (if any at all) such cases in freeride (using lifts for skiing off piste). All these cases that I know of, are out in backcountry far from lifts when both, bottom and upper groups were on hill coming up with their own power, either on same trail or higher group crossing to face from somewhere else. So for this inbound or not doesn't play role. But yeah terrain/snow situation is more complex, as also height difference between groups can be up to 1000+ height meters.

 

[James]

There was an avalanche that went onto a piste last week at Crans-Montana in Switzerland. It killed a patroller who was on piste helping someone. The approaching cloud was caught by a skier's go pro.
https://lenews.ch/2019/02/20/video-deadly-avalanche-at-crans-montana-switzerland/

 

[Ken_R]

I am very surprised that the snowboarder that triggered the avalanche off the Telluride Ski Area did not get taken down with the Avy as well. That area is right off the See Forever trail. They probably ducked the rope. The slope is so tempting. It opens up shortly after the resort boundary and is a beautiful, steep and clean untracked field of powder. Also, dont know where the boarders were going to exit out of there since it looks like the terrain cliffs out below. You would have to get into the gully at some point. I see more tracks in the pic posted so it was probably a group of boarders.

 

[Jerez]

The photo

of people searching the debris field ​

in the Crans-Montana article

@James posted​

really gives you perspective on how huge that stuff is. Awesome. Not in a good way.

 

[Sibhusky]

Down by Bozeman:

https://kpax.com/news/montana-news/2019/02/26/bozeman-man-dies-in-bridger-mountain-range-avalanche/

 

[Sibhusky]

His name was released. Peter Lazar. I feel like I've heard it before. EDIT. Sure enough. Friend of my daughter from college. Experienced guy.

KULR-TV: Bozeman man dies in Bridger mountains avalanche | Wake Up Montana.
https://www.kulr8.com/wakeup-montan...cle_acf6732e-694a-59d3-8de0-12ea54a75a29.html

 

[Beach Bum]

Hopefully criminal charges are pressed against the snowboarder, certainly civil suits in the $Millions range. People need to be taught a lesson.

As for backcountry skiing and appeal in general, places like Vail Resorts are certainly near the top of the list as negligent parties to avalanche deaths. Charging $200 a day to force many "ski bums" who don't make much money to trek elsewhere. Just a sad situation. As stated above, hopefully the snowboarder is found and arrested. Anyone have info on this?