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tromano

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I think the difference between 108 and 88 on a 8" day is all how you want to approach line choice and how you want to ski it. Some times I ski my narrower skis on days when we get a few inches, no big deal.

My wife has skied her Head monster 88 daily for 3 seasons despite having wider options available, even on the deepest days because that's what she was comfortable on. Finally got her to choose a wider ski for big days next season sheeva 10. But the idea that you need a certain width for a certain depth, no way.
 
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tromano

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P.S. What 88 to, say, 93 skis would you really like as well as a fatter ski in up to 8" of powder? (There may be lots and I'm just not bringing them to mind, dunno.) The only two (or three) I can think of off hand for me personally would be maybe the old Blizzard Brahma 90, Black Crows Orb 90/184, Head Kore 93 (though at deeper than 6" I'd probably rather be on the Kore 105), and in narrower, maybe an FIS 165 slalom ski, at least on steeps.
Salomon qst 92 demo indicates they will kill it in 12" of pow. Will let you know more next season
 

Tony S

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Also,
this guy is great and he's skiing the 83
maybe Head should have just marketed the ski using this, then we might have had it for a few more years, sigh..


VERY fun. If I skied like that (which, obviously, I don't), @KingGrump would STILL tell me I was working too hard.

Anyway, inspiring and energizing.
 

markojp

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P.S. What 88 to, say, 93 skis would you really like as well as a fatter ski in up to 8" of powder? (There may be lots and I'm just not bringing them to mind, dunno.) The only two (or three) I can think of off hand for me personally would be maybe the old Blizzard Brahma 90, Black Crows Orb 90/184, Head Kore 93 (though at deeper than 6" I'd probably rather be on the Kore 105), and in narrower, maybe an FIS 165 slalom ski, at least on steeps.

Monster 88. Next season's Dynastar M pro 90. Current Kendo.
 

Ken_R

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Its no secret I still love my Monster 88's (2016~2017 model in 184cm). They kill it in almost any condition (as long as you are going fast enough :ogbiggrin: )
 

BMC

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I ski a pair of Salomon QLabs as my DD in Niseko, and Blizzard Brahmas as my DD in Oz. I could as easily ski a Head Monster 88 too (I own an 83 and love it).

However I wouldn’t want an 88 as my DD in Japan. Sure I “could” ski it, but why “would” I, with better options for the conditions. My first two trips I did Niseko on 78 and then 82mm underfoot skis so it’s not like a wider ski is mandatory. But the QLab carves Niseko groomers great - nearly as well as a narrower ski, and is far more versatile in deeper snow and powder filled trees.

I own the Monster 83 as I say and would happily have the 88 as my DD
 

tromano

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There is a reason so many people pack it in by noon on a pow day. Most playful pow skis feel amazing that first run and then worse every run after throughout the day. Skis like a head monster, it just feels better every run, the closer of skis. Really nothing else I would want at 3:00 on a pow day.
 

Marker

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At Killington's demo day, Head had all the Supershapes, Kores, and the M88. No M83, go figure. The M88 was very nice, but perhaps a bit more demanding than my skill set warrants for all day skiing. I would have liked to demo the M83 to try something a little quicker.
 

Wilhelmson

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Ya you want max 83 mm for a pow day. 88s are for wanabees.
 

KingGrump

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VERY fun. If I skied like that (which, obviously, I don't), @KingGrump would STILL tell me I was working too hard.

I have no issue with your skiing. However lacking it may or may not be.
It's more about the effort expended. Specifically the non-essential portion of that effort.
 

trailtrimmer

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Only issue is length... the current 83 is only made up to 177. If you need a 184, then 88 is the only option. Truly great skis though. It guts me they're dropping them.

Luckily the ski isn't a noodle, a 6' 2" 230 LB pilot still has a substantial board underfoot in the 177. The old one also did better mounted 10 to 15mm forward.

I had the old model 83 and sold it to a friend who's about the size above and it's an excellent great lakes/east do all ski for 70-80% of the conditions. It wasn't playful enough for my taste since I already had race skis and front side carving options. It likes speed to wake up and will hold an edge far better than one would expect from an all mountain ski.
 

markojp

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Luckily the ski isn't a noodle, a 6' 2" 230 LB pilot still has a substantial board underfoot in the 177. The old one also did better mounted 10 to 15mm forward.

I had the old model 83 and sold it to a friend who's about the size above and it's an excellent great lakes/east do all ski for 70-80% of the conditions. It wasn't playful enough for my taste since I already had race skis and front side carving options. It likes speed to wake up and will hold an edge far better than one would expect from an all mountain ski.

Yes, I know. I've skied a ton on the 184 in both the current and 16-17 version in all conditions and all over the mountain. Might have to pick up one to keep for later.
 

DocGKR

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For nearly two decades I chose increasingly wider skis for my daily drivers, until I was routinely skiing 100mm+ wide ones. However, the past 2 seasons I have reversed that trend and begun spending most of my time on much narrower skis, as I am spending more time on-piste with an itch to race again.

Except for deep fresh snow days, almost all my time is now spent on either sub 80mm skis for hard pack conditions or those in the 80-90mm range for mixed conditions. I notice I am enjoying my turns more, am having as much fun as possible for an old guy in bumps, and still have a blast in fresh snow under 8” or so. The 80-90mm skis are much more applicable and versatile for most resort skiing than the 100+mm skis I was previously routinely using.

If I could only have one ski, something in the 80-90mm range would likely be it.
My Liberty V82’s are so smooth and easy to ski; my Stockli AR’s rip the hill and have a high speed limit, and I love the versatility of my Enforcer 88’s anywhere I take them and in any conditions. I have also have enjoyed trying the i.Titan, Deacon 80, S-Force Bold, Ikonic 84ti, Fischer RC One GT’s, Monster 88, Brahma 88, Kendo 88, and Liberty E90—all worthy skis for resort use.
 

James

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I have no issue with your skiing. However lacking it may or may not be.
It's more about the effort expended. Specifically the non-essential portion of that effort.
You mean the 10,000 turns? Well they’re nice turns...
We will unfortunately miss that at the NEG this year. Next year it might only be 9,999.

As far as the Monster 88/83. There’s more to a ski than waste width. Haven’t skied the 83, but spent 5 days on the Monster 88 this year.
To me, the tip of the ski makes for a poor 3d snow, cut up stuff ski. Way too hard snow centric. But, if you’ve got all sorts of other skis for that, it’s a moot point. But why bother with this 88? Even carve centric Stockli doesn’t have a tip like that on their 88. (Of course half of them consider that a pow ski)

It’s a fine ski, it could be a great ski with a few changes. And it’s not the width.
It just it makes no sense these days with that tip. Rossi went one way - changing their carve/hard snow Exp 88 2 yrs ago to a much different shape. Head got the Hammerhead Tip Virus, and it’s infected a lot of their designs. There’s room in between the two for lots designs.
Also,
this guy is great and he's skiing the 83
That guy could would look great on basically any ski. He might not like it though, but from the outside it would still look great. It’s not the ski.

We had a great stock of even narrower skis... even harder to sell, even on sale. Only exception was the Blizzy HRC... they started to sell at 40% off. :(
Maybe people will have to go East or to Europe for their skinny skis?
Does the heavy Northwest snow have any influence on this?

It would be interesting to hear from eastern shop folks. Seems like I see a lot of 80-90 skis here.
Yes, I get the sense that they’re pulling back from the fat obsession.
 

markojp

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You mean the 10,000 turns? Well they’re nice turns...
We will unfortunately miss that at the NEG this year. Next year it might only be 9,999.

As far as the Monster 88/83. There’s more to a ski than waste width. Haven’t skied the 83, but spent 5 days on the Monster 88 this year.
To me, the tip of the ski makes for a poor 3d snow, cut up stuff ski. Way too hard snow centric. But, if you’ve got all sorts of other skis for that, it’s a moot point. But why bother with this 88? Even carve centric Stockli doesn’t have a tip like that on their 88. (Of course half of them consider that a pow ski)

It’s a fine ski, it could be a great ski with a few changes. And it’s not the width.
It just it makes no sense these days with that tip. Rossi went one way - changing their carve/hard snow Exp 88 2 yrs ago to a much different shape. Head got the Hammerhead Tip Virus, and it’s infected a lot of their designs. There’s room in between the two for lots designs.

That guy could would look great on basically any ski. He might not like it though, but from the outside it would still look great. It’s not the ski.


Maybe people will have to go East or to Europe for their skinny skis?
Does the heavy Northwest snow have any influence on this?


Yes, I get the sense that they’re pulling back from the fat obsession.

I do like the older tip shape better, but I certainly have no trouble skiing the current one in crud and off piste at all. I did feel the 177, while great on groomed, was too short for off piste for how I prefer to ski. Does the heavy snow in the PNW have an influence? I'd say sure, but not in the way most would imagine. Most skis wider than 100 will get bounced around in heavier, cut up crud. The beauty of the M88's is they always just cut though it. I'd say most (but not all)people go wider because they're not accessing higher edge angles and need a ski to pivot ON rather than arc THROUGH typical skied out off piste work. But lest I sound like a bigger a$$ than I might be, the Kore 99 (189) worked well for me on deeper days, but it's noticeably slower edge to edge, and I do have a pair of 118 width skis that didn't even get mounted this season. If I had to keep only one ski and toss everything else, it'd be the 16-17 Monster 88. If I were out east, I'm guessing a 16-17 (184) M83 would check most of the boxes for everything if not something narrower like an iSpeed Pro.
 

Coolhand

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Interesting... I started a thread on the Reviews section asking similar question and similar observations (Why 100-108 skis?). Was flamed to death. But, I'm seeing the same thing as a ski retailer, no one is even looking at skis under 90mm until they go on sale. The darlings of the ski market are all over 100mm at the waist.

I own and ski both Monster 88's - 16/17' (177cm) and Monster 83 19/20' (177cm), use them both quite a bit for all-around western skiing. They are perfect 95% of the time. I am 6'1", 240#, ski pretty fast and aggressively and they are both plenty of ski. The 184cm in the M88 would be better for wide open bowls and runs at bigger mountains, but the 177cm is perfect in tighter spots, bumps, and trees.
 

markojp

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People generally get offended if they feel you aren't validating their ski choice. I'm not offended at all by what anyone skis on, only that there are a bunch of superlative skis that are impossible for retailers to make a living trying to sell. For a minority of us who really feel that 90 and narrow for most skiing in most places works very very well. Are there skis in that width range I don't like? Are there 95+ skis I like? Are there? Yes, but that's not the point. And if I were being really persnickety, I'd tell you that for the right skier, the 184 is the right ski anywhere on the mountain; trees, bumps, tight spots, steeps, teaching first times through expert skiers in the 8-9 zone, but for most, it's not.
 
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GregK

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As far as the Monster 88/83. There’s more to a ski than waste width. Haven’t skied the 83, but spent 5 days on the Monster 88 this year.
To me, the tip of the ski makes for a poor 3d snow, cut up stuff ski. Way too hard snow centric. But, if you’ve got all sorts of other skis for that, it’s a moot point. But why bother with this 88? Even carve centric Stockli doesn’t have a tip like that on their 88. (Of course half of them consider that a pow ski)

It’s a fine ski, it could be a great ski with a few changes. And it’s not the width.
It just it makes no sense these days with that tip. Rossi went one way - changing their carve/hard snow Exp 88 2 yrs ago to a much different shape. Head got the Hammerhead Tip Virus, and it’s infected a lot of their designs. There’s room in between the two for lots designs.

This!

The blunt sloped tip found on most slalom type skis like the Monsters inhibit their off piste performance and bulldoze heavy afternoon crud. The Monsters flex and weight gives it much better performance than most skis with similar tips but could definitely be improved by smoother tip slope and a hair of taper.

Skis like the Laser AX/AR, Enforcer 88, 2021 Brahma 88, MPro 90 etc all use much smoother sloped tips similar to wider powder skis which hugely improves their versatility off piste and allows them to easily glide over rough afternoon crud as well. The faster(especially 45mph plus) you ski, the more you notice the difference in tip design when things aren’t firm and smooth all day.

Sad to see chargers like the Monster disappearing but it’s because their versatility is limited compared to some of newer similar width options. I too would go Monster 83 over the 88 as it’s more hard snow oriented and I’d prefer something else when there’s snow or things got rough. Sad to say but I bet the new Kore 87 will sell far more than the 83/88 Monsters even with reduced hard snow performance as it will be easier to ski in all conditions for a larger range of abilities.
 

markojp

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This!

The blunt sloped tip found on most slalom type skis like the Monsters inhibit their off piste performance and bulldoze heavy afternoon crud. The Monsters flex and weight gives it much better performance than most skis with similar tips but could definitely be improved by smoother tip slope and a hair of taper.

Skis like the Laser AX/AR, Enforcer 88, 2021 Brahma 88, MPro 90 etc all use much smoother sloped tips similar to wider powder skis which hugely improves their versatility off piste and allows them to easily glide over rough afternoon crud as well. The faster(especially 45mph plus) you ski, the more you notice the difference in tip design when things aren’t firm and smooth all day.

Sad to see chargers like the Monster disappearing but it’s because their versatility is limited compared to some of newer similar width options. I too would go Monster 83 over the 88 as it’s more hard snow oriented and I’d prefer something else when there’s snow or things got rough. Sad to say but I bet the new Kore 87 will sell far more than the 83/88 Monsters even with reduced hard snow performance as it will be easier to ski in all conditions for a larger range of abilities.

Well, the water is over the dam, and what you describe is the new supershape tips. I was hoping that the new e-Titan would be a possible suitable replacement for the monster... Just haven't been on it enough to know.

The second underlined point is entirely debatable. I still haven't found an 88 that does what the M88 does across a range of conditions, and I've been on all of them. At the moment moving forward to 2020-21, the best ski in the strong 80-90 category speaking only for myself is the Lazer AR. It's like skiing a narrower 16-17 M88. And hopefully yes, the Kore 87 will outsell a discontinued ski. :)
 
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