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MLB Sign Stealing Scandal

crgildart

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Is this the biggest cheating since the Black Sox? Wondering if players and managers moving around and telling other new team mates about it might be what broke it wide open.
 

Philpug

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IMHO, the time did not equal the crime. I agree, this is on par with the Black Sox and even bigger than Pete Rose and look what they got. I understand that the $5M fine is as big as they coudl go but when $5M is used as bonuses, it shows that amount really is insignificant. Both of these managers will have jobs as soon as their suspensions end. There is very little here that will prevent this from happening again.
 
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crgildart

crgildart

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Sign stealing and other cheating is pretty pervasive, but when it's too effective and successful then it gets a slap on the wrist. Go to a minor league game and sit by the bullpen or dugout, You will see pitchers loading up their gloves with vasoline. Pointed it out to my son last year, very quietly of course. But, we still laugh about it because that guy saved the game hahahaha!
 

Philpug

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Sign stealing and other cheating is pretty pervasive, but when it's too effective and successful then it gets a slap on the wrist. Go to a minor league game and sit by the bullpen or dugout, You will see pitchers loading up their gloves with vasoline. Pointed it out to my son last year, very quietly of course. But, we still laugh about it because that guy saved the game hahahaha!
Sign stealing is one thing if within the lines. If you are not good enough to either shield them or hide them, you deserve to have them stolen. Using technology ie video and TV's and garbage cans, that goes past the rules of the game.
 

Coach13

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What I found telling was the reports that when the commissioner had a teleconference to brief the other teams, most other owners felt the punishment was way too severe. Not to mention there was zero punishment to the players involved.

I expect Cora to get a multi-year ban.
 

socalgal

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My mom called to tell me about it, lol, "The Dodgers were robbed!" My DH, who is an Angel fan, said, "They all do it to some degree." My initial reaction was that the fine seemed like a mere slap on the wrist.

And then, life went on.
 

SKI-3PO

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I believe that most teams were doing it at some level and have been doing it with whatever technology of the day was available for as long as the game has been around. The $5M team fine means nothing, but losing significant draft picks and people losing jobs will be a deterrent. It’s much harder to keep a secret now with players and coaches moving around so much.

They should use technology to transfer the signs rather than try to fight it. Similar to how football uses audio in helmets for the offensive and defensive plays. Or use a random chart that can change frequently where a number corresponds to a pitch. It’s done at youth, HS, college levels.
 

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778B203E-B3F2-485F-98E7-3ABDA09A1D10.jpeg
 

TexasStout

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Sign stealing and other cheating is pretty pervasive, but when it's too effective and successful then it gets a slap on the wrist. Go to a minor league game and sit by the bullpen or dugout, You will see pitchers loading up their gloves with vasoline. Pointed it out to my son last year, very quietly of course. But, we still laugh about it because that guy saved the game hahahaha!
Actually, the players involved claim they shut it down themselves because they didn't feel it was effective. They thought they were gonna get a leg up on the competition but evidence didn't show that, in the long run. Turns out the punishment was more severe than what they gained from it.

Personally, I believe the Astros organization lost the most in losing the GM since he was the architect of their program and brought in the players they have. Luhnow claims he didn't even know it was going on during his watch, which is no excuse when you're the boss.
 

scott43

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Actually, the players involved claim they shut it down themselves because they didn't feel it was effective. They thought they were gonna get a leg up on the competition but evidence didn't show that, in the long run. Turns out the punishment was more severe than what they gained from it.
I'm not sure about that..the pitching stats for opposing pitchers were pretty significantly slanted...
 

James

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When the Yankees Aroldis Chapman gave up the game winning homer in the playoffs to Altuve, he gave a look that said “you knew that was coming.”

Players were given immunity.

The big question is will the Mets can their brand new, never managed, manager Carlos Beltran.
Likely the Mets won’t, and this will be a 4 month soap opera.
 

scott43

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Regarding Beltran, Marcus Stroman had a beef with Cora and taunted him on Twitter as a cheat..meanwhile, his current manager at the Mets is Beltran and he was involved in the same scandal. Kinda made a mess in the clubhouse there!!
 

James

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Regarding Beltran, Marcus Stroman had a beef with Cora and taunted him on Twitter as a cheat..meanwhile, his current manager at the Mets is Beltran and he was involved in the same scandal. Kinda made a mess in the clubhouse there!!
Lol. The Mets are endless drama since 2007 when they somehow lost the division, up 7 games with 17 left to play. In the one game home playoff to salvage the season, Tom Glavin gave up 6 runs in the first inning. Before many people even got there, the season was over.

Then he made some honest comment when asked how he felt like, “I’m not going to kill myself over it, life goes on.” “There’s worse things that happen in life.” Etc. Last thing they wanted to hear was he wasn’t all broken up about losing their season.

It’s fun to listen to NY sports radio and Mets discussion. It’s one disaster after another.
Their only no hitter, (which replay confirmed a called foul was in, so it was really a one hitter), ruined their best pitcher Johan Santana after he threw like 145 pitches. Never any good after.

Meanwhile, Mets fans have made Beltran a scapegoat since he struck out looking and they lost the league play offs to St Louis in 2006. They blamed him for the whole thing. They would always talk about it everytime he did something good with another team. “That bum”. Never mind he was actually one of, if not their best players.

They mostly wanted Gerrardi as their new manager. Someone proven. They’re tired of the succession of oddballs they’ve had for a long time. But, they knew it would never happen as he’s not as controllable by their gm, and is too expensive.
However, I think they were actually pretty happy with Beltran as manager. Somehow they came to terms with it. Now this!
 

TexasStout

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I'm not sure about that..the pitching stats for opposing pitchers were pretty significantly slanted...
In 2017, the Astros had a better Road record than Home record. On the road, Astros had the #1 W-L record, #1 in runs, home runs, RBIs and batting average! This is where they could not cheat with cameras. Opposing teams' pitchers were getting slammed by Astros offense, regardless of the park or whether they had cameras watching.
 

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In 2017, the Astros had a better Road record than Home record. On the road, Astros had the #1 W-L record, #1 in runs, home runs, RBIs and batting average! This is where they could not cheat with cameras. Opposing teams' pitchers were getting slammed by Astros offense, regardless of the park or whether they had cameras watching.

That probably highlights the saddest 2 factors in all of this as far as the Astros involvement imo. They cheated and were so dominant they really didn’t need to. And-the fact they cheated simply cheapened what they would have likely achieved without cheating.
 

James

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That probably highlights the saddest 2 factors in all of this as far as the Patriots involvement imo. They cheated and were so dominant they really didn’t need to. And-the fact they cheated simply cheapened what they would have likely achieved without cheating.
Another take.
That didn’t take long, not that they really had an option.
There were plenty of calls to not fire him. Even in NY. I think it was a good move. The talk and taint would be relentless in NY and Philly. Sad for Beltran that he got involved in that. Unlikely he’ll ever manage now in mlb. Maybe in 5 yrs if he goes south and manages.

This is so Mets, it’s not even funny. (Note that Beltran worked for the Yankees as an advisor) They had nothing to do with it, yet they’re caught up in it. I think a majority of Mets fans would have supported, and cheered, also firing their GM, Brodie Van Wagenen. A full house cleaning, even if it’s mid January.
The refrain is already, “We coulda had Girardi...” who went to the hated Phillies.



Edit- just saw twitter. This is classic:
1B4A8B9A-38D3-4835-AED6-010AF77BCF35.jpeg
 
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Coach13

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Another take.

There were plenty of calls to not fire him. Even in NY. I think it was a good move. The talk and taint would be relentless in NY and Philly. Sad for Beltran that he got involved in that. Unlikely he’ll ever manage now in mlb. Maybe in 5 yrs if he goes south and manages.

This is so Mets, it’s not even funny. (Note that Beltran worked for the Yankees as an advisor) They had nothing to do with it, yet they’re caught up in it. I think a majority of Mets fans would have supported, and cheered, also firing their GM, Brodie Van Wagenen. A full house cleaning, even if it’s mid January.
The refrain is already, “We coulda had Girardi...” who went to the hated Phillies.



Edit- just saw twitter. This is classic:
View attachment 90235

It’s a bad situation overall, especially for the Mets who are really innocent bystanders in all this. Beltran may get another chance down the road and I expect as successful as Hinch was in Houston, some long time losing team will bring him back in eventually. Cora, I think is done managing for good. I expect him to at minimum get a multiyear ban, if not indefinite.
 

cantunamunch

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Sign stealing is one thing if within the lines. If you are not good enough to either shield them or hide them, you deserve to have them stolen. Using technology ie video and TV's and garbage cans, that goes past the rules of the game.

Why? I seriously don't understand this.

Using technology to say 'Happy Birthday' to someone you wouldn't recognise on the street 4 hours later, let alone next day, is apparently fine - but using technology to observe a sporting event is Massively Scandalous?

It seems like the actual communication was completely within the letter of the rules.
 

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