Mixing wax brands ?

Discussion in 'Tuning Techniques and Tool Information' started by David, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. David

    David Getting on the lift Skier

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Posts:
    299
    Location:
    Holland, MI
    When I'm skiing on a weekend or a longer vacation I always take a rub-on or paste wax in case I need it. I use Hertel Hot Sauce as my everyday wax but their website sucks and I couldn't find rub-on or reach them so I ended up with ZumWax's rub-on. Now weeks later Hertel finally answered my emails and claims that the chemicals in ZumWax will react negatively to any of the Hertel wax that may still be on or in the base.

    Has anyone else heard of this? Or are they just trying to get me to pitch the competitions wax?
     
  2. Tony S

    Tony S aka qcanoe Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2015
    Posts:
    1,937
    Location:
    Maine
    Of course they do.
     
  3. Mike Thomas

    Mike Thomas Whiteroom Pugski Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Posts:
    655
    Wax Fight!!!

    It’s like Westside Story on a molecular level.
     
  4. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Posts:
    17,698
    Location:
    Reno, eNVy
    Thanks, now I cannot get that tune out of my head.

    Once you use Swix you always use Swix down to the final buff...
     
  5. Jacques

    Jacques Workin' It on Skis Best I Can Skier

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Posts:
    618
    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Never use the "H" word wax. Problem solved. :micdrop:
     


  6. Thread Starter
    TS
    David

    David Getting on the lift Skier

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Posts:
    299
    Location:
    Holland, MI
    Any particular reason?
     
  7. François Pugh

    François Pugh Out on the slopes Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Posts:
    1,711
    Location:
    Great White North (Eastern side currently)
    It reacts negatively, according to them.
    I only use iron on wax. Scrape and brush. I never pay attention to the brand of wax, just the temperature range. When I run out I buy whatever I can find in the first sports store or ski shop I come to. I've never had a problem, and I'm usually the fastest skier on the hill, so the wax works.
     
  8. skiwhmts

    skiwhmts Booting up Skier

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    16
    My experience is that any rub on or wipe on wax is better than no wax. Sure its not a iron wax but if your at a resort and put some on its fine and will certainly help. It usually is enough to keep snow from sticking to the ski bottoms. I always bring rub on wax and an edge tool with me everywhere I go. It is so quick and easy I sometimes put it on at lunch before heading out again. I think it helps the skis glide better. For those who think I am crazy it might be in my mind and the placebo effect taking over but that still works for me.
     
    Tony S likes this.
  9. Tony S

    Tony S aka qcanoe Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2015
    Posts:
    1,937
    Location:
    Maine
    :rolleyes:

    I really think we should start over to give the OP a chance. Off the rails doesn't begin to describe this thread.

    Edit: eyeroll not directed at you, skiwhmts.
     
  10. Thread Starter
    TS
    David

    David Getting on the lift Skier

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Posts:
    299
    Location:
    Holland, MI
    Off the rails? Hmm...

    I hot wax my skis every 3 days or so depending on the snow. But there are times when I need 1 more day before I can get home to wax, I'm on a longer vacation or I just didn't have the time to hot wax. This is why I bought the ZumWax. I also can help out a friend (who doesn't get the reason to wax) with a quick waxing.

    So my real question is...Is Hertel giving me a line of crap or is there some truth to ZumWax using a chemical makeup that can make things worse when used with another wax?
     
  11. Jacques

    Jacques Workin' It on Skis Best I Can Skier

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Posts:
    618
    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Someone gave me some. I tried it. Not impressed.
    But hey.......that's just me!
     
    David and Sibhusky like this.
  12. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Posts:
    6,030
    Hertel Hot Sauce has very specific* surfactant additives in it that work to a certain level, when used by themselves on a clean base. Paste waxes, in order to be spreadable, use lighter molecular weights and organic solvents.

    I strongly suspect no one at Hertel actually tried the combination you're asking about - it's just that they know oily solvents in combination with surfactant make micelles within the bulk of the wax instead of having the surfactant self-arrange on top of the wax in parallel sheets on the base.

    If you *really* think you will be using paste wax on travel again, pick a straight hydrocarbon home wax. Or, if you absolutely want to use HHS at home, pack a cork and a hydrocarbon hard wax (not paste!) and cork it on. For example, Swix CH6 and CH5 work just fine when corked into HHS (if the bases are clean).

    Does that answer your question?


    *in both senses - we know what they are and no other Hertel uses the same formulation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  13. Sibhusky

    Sibhusky Out on the slopes Skier

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Posts:
    1,757
    Location:
    Whitefish
    Same here. Received for Christmas, used maybe twice. I'm not a "universal" wax fan anyway. I usually start using them as the end of the season approaches and things aren't consistent from AM to PM and at different slope aspects, but then I usually start adding a tad of fluoro. Things with mystery ingredients and mystery ("universal") "best for" snow types aren't big on my list. There's always compromises. If it were really universal, we'd give up on every other wax out there.

    And something that I have to thoroughly clean the base to remove anything else that might be there from a couple days back is definitely not on my list.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
    Tony S and Jacques like this.
  14. Eleeski

    Eleeski Out on the slopes Skier

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Posts:
    1,373
    Location:
    San Diego / skis at Squaw Valley
    If I don't lick enough of the raspberry jam off the paraffin plug to seal the jam, some seeds might still be stuck on the wax when I iron it on my skis.

    Seriously, if this is a discussion about how to shave .01 off race times, great. But for just making the skis get smoothly down the hill, does it really matter? Especially after a few runs have taken most the wax off the bases (racers have to retune the skis after every run to get those .01s).

    Modern bases are engineered to be pretty slippery. Wax is a minor effect. Mixed waxes are a minor part of this minor effect. I certainly wouldn't be able to tell.

    Unless it makes the klister I use to slow down slippery.

    Eric
     
  15. Dakine

    Dakine Getting off the lift Skier

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    251
    Location:
    Tip of the Mitt
    The need for wax depends on conditions.
    If it is very cold and dry, skis are faster with no wax at all but the bases will burn.
    When it is hot and wet, wax is critical.
    You can mess around mixing brands but that can get confusing in a hurry.
    Luckily, you can easily remove a mess and start over.
    Strew your mess.....
     
  16. Andy Mink

    Andy Mink I am a half fast skier. Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Posts:
    1,419
    Location:
    Reno
    Phantom. End of discussion! :snowball:

    Just kidding! BTW, I drive a RAM, have a Polaris Sportsman, a Kawasaki Teryx, prefer auto over manual in most applications, narrower over wider skis. Let the discussions NOT begin!:facepalm:
     
  17. Jacques

    Jacques Workin' It on Skis Best I Can Skier

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Posts:
    618
    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Of course you can't tell the difference if you don't do much waxing, and or do poor waxing. Don't prepare the bases etc.
    I don't think anyone is talking about a tenth of a second here.
    It's about a skis glide.
    When you feel it you know.
    It's like being on ball bearings.
    To slow down you need to turn, slarve or skid.
    With "speed controlled" skis you can just let the skis bases keep you in control. let the bases get a good amount of burn. That all helps you.
    If your skis change that much after a few runs that should tell you something about the quality of waxing you are doing.
     
    Sibhusky likes this.
  18. Dakine

    Dakine Getting off the lift Skier

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    251
    Location:
    Tip of the Mitt
    "If your skis change that much after a few runs that should tell you something about the quality of waxing you are doing."
    Well there are specialty fluoros that are good for about 100 meters but it is a very good 100 meters.
    The older I get, the more I just keep them saturated with Holmenkol Red and let them run.
     
  19. Thread Starter
    TS
    David

    David Getting on the lift Skier

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Posts:
    299
    Location:
    Holland, MI
    Yes it does thank you! Most of it was way over my head but I get the gist.
     
  20. Thread Starter
    TS
    David

    David Getting on the lift Skier

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Posts:
    299
    Location:
    Holland, MI
    Unfortunately we can have really big temperature swings here. I can wax on Thursday for cold snow and by Saturday it warms up or vise versa regardless of the forecast. A universal works best around here unless I can wax that morning.
     

Share This Page


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice