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Mikaela Shiffrin

Muleski

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Keep in mind that Dykster was her coach when she had her biggest winning margins ever. Dykster has an incredible eye. One of the best. I’m not surprised to hear this. He has questioned the skis....let alone the boots for a long time. My hunch...if she were in a Lange boot, and on Rossi’s purpose built for her, she might be faster in SL and GS, both.
Would they pay her as much as Atomic? And is her stuff actually made by Atomic? I think it is now. Had not always been the case.

Something is going on, and being worked on. Safe to say it was not a bad day, alone.

We’ll see. Next starts are the 28th and 29th in Lienz {Aut}. SL in Zagreb, CRO on Jan 4th. Flachau is Jan 14th. Sestriere GS on Jan 18th. Guessing we’ll see some great skiing by the end of that stretch. And no speed, little social media unless posted by her agent.

They are at work. A lot of “they’s.” I think.
 

4ster

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AP news article from the other day...

I found this quote interesting.
“I know how heartbreaking it is to do your very best and to be right on the edge of the top 30. It’s really difficult to get over that mental barrier in a race.”
When was Shiffrin ever at the edge of the top 30? ;)
 

Muleski

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MS's rise on the WC in SL was....what it was. She was 15 when he had her first WC starts, In the Czech Republic and she DNQ'd in an SL and a GS. that fall, she DNQ'd in the GS at Aspen, and the GS at Lienz. She also finished 8th in the SL at Aspen. In calendar year 2012, she had her last SL DNQ in January, a GS DNQ in Are, and one in GS at Soelden. That was her last failure to qualify for a second run. Her results really exploded after that. She also DNQ'd that one time after she turned 17. Just from another planet.

Take that article with a number of grains of salt. The bit about her feeling so awkward, when she was younger, and frankly until about three years ago is absolutely true. A lot of older "women" {or girls} were mean, and jealous, and she was a pretty shy and introverted kid. It's 100% of he reason why her mom traveled wither form the beginning and took on a bigger role in things.

I believe that she is genuinely trying to reach out to the younger women on the USST, and to be a leader and mentor. Its keep in mind that Mike Day has ONE athlete to coach. MS. She has her own team of one. Not totally unusual on the WC. She Mike, Jeff Lackie, her own physio, her tech, and I think she may have a chef/nutrtionist. And her own press officer. Plus her agent is very often with her. None of this people work for anybody bt Mikaela.
Not sure how Nina fits in as she is the only other American woman skiing WC SL, and one of few skiing GS. Nina has great upside.

I just take those articles with some degree of measure. Nobody talked about Horscher being a great teammate, or today Pintu, let alone Tina Maze! And nobody who knew what the deal was discussed LV the same way, until her last season or two, when she was presumably advised that it would be of big PR value to be chiling with the speed ladies. For years she and Juia Mancuso would not even speak to each other. Or acknowledge each other. And, yes, pretty much each had her own team.

It's very much an individual sport, and when a national team can truly bring in that team culture, it's remarkable. Like the Norwegian men. The younger American guys, the American speed guys. The Italian women.

If you're an Austrian, those guys in the same suits are your competitors. They are fighting for WC starts, and want to bury you in the process. The top 2-3 might be good friends.

Another topic is whether Mikaela's quick rise and complete domination, so early was good or bad for American ski racing. A big number of top level young women were made to feel that "they sucked" because they were not Mikaela. Being 19-20 with WC aspirations, being dusted by some strange little 15 year old? It was often a tough time. Even worse as the USST made it clear that they were going to pour resources into her, and ignore others. Was it good, or bad? Hard to argue with her results.
 

Muleski

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^^^^^ Good catch. Keep forgetting about Paula in "Round Two" with the team. But not with MS as she once was, before things sort of exploded. Subject for another day. I hope she has a great year! No sure how I could be so clueless!


Not much comment on Leever, the article, his acquisition of skiracing.com, the WPST, SYNC, Team America, and....on and on.

I have a feeling that what he's going to be rolling out in SR is different that the "Leever Study", but will no doubt incorporate some of the research.

Will be interesting to see it unfold. If you want your thoughts out there, buy Skiracing.com, I guess. All in his hands.

Saw on Instagram today that he's front and center during the opening of the extended terrain and new lift at Gold Peak, for Ski Club Vail's use. I believe he was the lead donor. Shocker.

I have already had a couple of people, pretty deep in the sport, thinking that if the model for success is to go about this just like Eileen and Jeff Shiffrin did, the sport will have real challenges. Move to Vail, ski one on one with your kids once they can walk....almost every day, and then once they start school.......

Very often we'll have a thread start here, the general theme of which is that ski racing needs to get back to it's roots, and such. Make it more simple, easier to get started. He does make some very, very good points, though. About training versus race volume. Not sure if that's a recent learning for him.

I think the best spot on comment is that "Mikaela is not some freak of nature. She is a product of this methodology." Pay attention to that. Many, I find, feel that she MUST be this off the charts super athlete. She is not. I recall a couple of folks telling me how she had such a "wonderful touch and feel for the snow." That would be a new one for most who have coached her. The methodology, the process, the learning....That's one big nugget in there.

Also keep in mind that Dan was the vice chair of the USST Foundation Board {and reputedly the biggest donor} at about the time that he commissioned his study. He was very frustrated with the team, and resigned from the board. I doubt if Skiracing will be the USST mouthpiece that it has been.

One thing is certain. He loves the sport. He has boundless resources, and he has the time and energy to be all over it. I naively wondered why he wanted to buy skiracing.com when that rumor surfaced. The comment to me was "Why not? It has to do with ski racing? He'll buy it." Then I heard that "It gives him a forum to speak and write about his thoughts...and have an audience."

I think he's going to have somebody clean up the quality of a lot of their content, BTW. They have a couple of people who are on top of things, many who do not seem to be. I think you'll see far fewer re-published press releases, for example. Leever does not need to earn a dime with the business, which is probably a big plus.

I always enjoy the comments that follow up the articles on Ski Racing, too.
 

James

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Not much comment on Leever, the article, his acquisition of skiracing.com, the WPST, SYNC, Team America, and....on and on.
He bought all those?? (Not that he might be better off financially buying a big yacht)
What is “Team America”. I thought it was Bode’s thing years ago when he left USST.
 

Started at 53

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Venus and Serena Williams did not play junior tennis, their father trained them endlessly and at a point took them from California to Florida to an Academy, but they still did not play junior tennis

The Shiffrin’s model is proven in other sports as well.
 

Ivan

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Venus and Serena Williams did not play junior tennis, their father trained them endlessly and at a point took them from California to Florida to an Academy, but they still did not play junior tennis

The Shiffrin’s model is proven in other sports as well.
In soccer too. Here is an excellent quote:
On one occasion I said to a president: ‘I don’t start [this presentation].’ He said: ‘What’s happened?’ I said: ‘I asked the clubs not to put up the rankings for the small boys, from under-7 and under-8.’ Can you imagine what it was like with 300 people in the hall waiting? They moved the rankings with hammers and nails. I said to them afterwards: ‘Rankings is the wrong way. Make the development of your players the first objective.’
For those who do not follow soccer particularly closely, Belgium currently has one of the best national teams in the world.
 

Muleski

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He bought all those?? (Not that he might be better off financially buying a big yacht)
What is “Team America”. I thought it was Bode’s thing years ago when he left USST.

@James, you probably need to do some homework on Dan Leever! His family business was MacDermid, a chemical company which they sold, then he required with some PE partners around 2006, then drove it upward and sold it again in 2016 for $1.8Bil. Dan is an exceptionally wealthy and driven guy.

Yes he owns "all of those", some in partnership {like SYNC}. Team America is a group that he started to support ski racers who fell just outside of the USST criteria, including some who have been dropped. Among the current guys are his son Alex, and Garrett Driller. They took the name, with Bode's blessing to pay homage to Bode's efforts. They subsequently launched "Junior Team America," in congestion with SYNC. JTA supports a large number of exceptional juniors.

This fall he bought the World Pro Ski Tour from Ed Rogers. And they are just getting it rolling. He'll fuel it with more resources. They have an event at Steamboat tomorrow....and they have paid Ted Ligety to be part of it.

Alex Leever was a top quality NCAA skier and captain at DU, while obtaining his bachelor's and MBA degrees. The guy has had jets on skis. Skied for the US in World Juniors. Just short of the World Cup.

Rumor has it that he spent close to $250K on "the study." And as mentioned he is a very, very generous donor to all things skiing, most often anonymously.

Big presence in the ski racing world.
 

Muleski

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Venus and Serena Williams did not play junior tennis, their father trained them endlessly and at a point took them from California to Florida to an Academy, but they still did not play junior tennis

The Shiffrin’s model is proven in other sports as well.

No question it can work. It has worked. Right now the very best young women in the country, who are among the best in the world are often private coached. I'll make it simple. Unlimited resources. No budget. Probably 5-10 Tims the coast of having a kid in a top flight ski academy. Very serious stuff. And very careful athlete management. Right balance of everything.

At some point, in most cases, the athlete needs world class coaching and few parents can provide that.

Not quite like like Richard Williams trying the girls on a cement court in Compton, and beyond.. But the concept of training their own themselves, or having somebody else training the kids on their own...at a certain point....is a more of a constant.

And it does not stop. Hirscher, Vonn, Mikaela, HK, PIntu....all have their own teams. Teams of one. As a kid, Hircher's coach was his dad. I believe that HK's was as well.

Yeah, it's not that "fair."
 

hbear

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And the “problem” is that it works and produces....those with resources tend to have an advantage over those that do not....not unlike most things in life.

Dan is an interesting guy for sure and a huge passion for the sport. Be interesting to see how things unfold, I too did not know about Sync but learned through an insider about his involvement (was actually SRD before it became SYNC).
 

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The exception of the Norwegian team spirit would be HK. Been some controversy around him as he has gone his own way with his own team. Yes his father very involved.
 

Primoz

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Personally I don't agree that "Shiffrin's model" work. Alpine skiing is nowadays, harshly said, but unfortunately very true, sport of spoiled rich brats, with no working habits. That's why it's actually possible for someone untalented (I wouldn't call Shiffrin that, but then again I have way too little info on her), to succeed just with whole bunch of work. With any other (or better to say most of other) sports, just hard work is unfortunately not enough to be on top. That's why Williams sisters, are nowhere near this model, and even less is any soccer player (sport where more money is flowing around then in all other sports together). In tennis, or in soccer, if you want to be best on world, you need huge talent, and whole bunch of hard work. Exclude one, and in best case you can be average player.
Alpine skiing is different. People in there, have absolutely no idea what hard work is. Regardless on what someone here might think of this comment, but believe me, I have seen enough of this on WC level, and my main background is in sport where you die training hard (in my case for absolutely no result), so I know what hard training is, and I know what's this what average top 10 WC racer in alpine skiing does.
But with things set like that, it actually makes it possible for someone without (much) talent, to be top of the top just with hard work. As I wrote, I can't say about Shiffrin, but I believe Muleski about this, but if you look at Kostelic, who was pretty much ruling every discipline few years back, it proves just hard work is enough in alpine to win... simply because when people train so little, you can actually afford to train twice as much as everyone else. In let's say tennis, it's physically impossible to train twice as much as top guys are training, which means... sorry no go if you don't have appropriate talent too.
But even in alpine, pushing your kid doing endless drills, having skiing as full time job at age of 5, is absolutely no guarantee you will produce world champion. It's more of guarantee your kid will tell you to fu**ck off as soon as he will dare to say that to you (as his/her parent), and he or she will quit skiing at age of 15. But then you have person or two every few decades that make it through such way, and becomes world champion, and all of a sudden every single parent think clubs and ski federations suck, and his/her kid should have his private team, with servicemen, few coaches, physio and preferably nutritionist, since he or she is 6. Because that's the only and the right way his/her kid will be World champion in 10 years, and he will finally be bragging around as proud parent of new world champ. Well it doesn't go this way. If nothing else, just look at start list of WC race (and most of those kids never come to start WC)... there's 60-80 racers, and there's in best case 2 or 3 who were World Champions ;)
 

Tom Holtmann

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I find it very surprising that there is "free money" laying around on the World Cup. I can't think of any other sport where there is substantial money to be made where the top 10 in the world aren't training hard. Seems like it would be easy for the US (or any other team) to turn things around easily by just bringing in coaches that demand hard training.
 

Primoz

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There's not much "free money" or "any kind of money" in skiing. Sure there is Lindsey, there's Mikela now, and there was Hirscher or Svindal, but if you are let's say "only" top 10, which is actually awesome result, you will never get rich from that... and if you are top 30 (which is still damn awesome achievement), you probably on yearly base earn less then average salary is.
Otherwise, yes, you could turn thing around easily, but there's one little problem... catch is within my first line... Alpine skiing is today sport of spoiled rich brats, with no working habits. It's virtually impossible from coach, who gets paid with racer's parent money to demand anything... especially if he wants to keep that job.
 

Tom Holtmann

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There's not much "free money" or "any kind of money" in skiing. Sure there is Lindsey, there's Mikela now, and there was Hirscher or Svindal, but if you are let's say "only" top 10, which is actually awesome result, you will never get rich from that... and if you are top 30 (which is still damn awesome achievement), you probably on yearly base earn less then average salary is.
Otherwise, yes, you could turn thing around easily, but there's one little problem... catch is within my first line... Alpine skiing is today sport of spoiled rich brats, with no working habits. It's virtually impossible from coach, who gets paid with racer's parent money to demand anything... especially if he wants to keep that job.
So if you are top 10 overall Men's you don't make $500,000 per year with prize money and sponsorship? If that is the case then I can understand the situation.
 

Primoz

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Sponsor money is never public, but prize money is. And either way, for someone who's on p10 (overall last season with men was Feller on p10, with women was Ilka Stuhec on p10), I would dare to bet they don't get $500k/year.
As for prize money, in 2019 season , Shiffrin won 886386.70CHF (a bit over $900k), second highest earner was Hirscher with 565k CHF (a bit over $580k). Fifth one in women was Holdener with 166k CHF (about $170k), and fifth in men was Noel with 207k CHF (about $213k).
10th best on prize money list with women was Goggia with 93k CHF ($95k) and men Franz with 121k CHF ($124k). 30th were Remme (31.000 CHF) and Windingstad (33.000CHF). And neither Remme nor Windingstad are 30th ranked on WCSL, but much much higher then that. Another sample... Ligety earned 12.000CHF ($12.500) with prizes whole last season. Not really all that much, right?
Substract about 50+% off for taxes, and you are left with very little money, even if you are Shiffrin, and way less if you are anyone else, including Hirscher.
Of course there's still sponsors money next to this, but believe me, there's very very few people (today, when Vonn, Svindal and Hirscher are gone, I would dare to bet there are 3 or max 4 such guys or girls) in skiing with overall contracts for million+/year.
 
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