Men's FIS SL Skis?

[François Pugh]

Anybody have information on flex distribution and rocker/camber profile on these skis?

 

[Eleeski]

Hmm, I have not found weight to be of any significance on a race ski. Just doesn't impact the skiing. Pain to carry though.
The ski is only 50%. Plate and binding is the rest of the "feel". Depends on how much rigidity/torsional stiffnes you need. But I have never seen anyone mount bindings directly on a FIS SL. Somehow I think that you want a plate. Don't be afraid of the weight. They are super nimble and quick as hell from edge to edge.

I'm sure you are correct about the real effects of weight. Might even be worth a couple hundredths in a race. But heavy skis hurt my knees on the chairlift and are much harder to throw tricks on. The engineer in me, who has played with exotics like carbon and boron, wonder if a light ski with the same stiffness, rebound and damping would be better.

Hard snow days and gates are probably the least weight sensitive conditions.

My wife doesn't race but liked the flat bindings on her old race skis. On other skis, I didn't care too much for the lifting plates I tried. My waterskis are measurably better without any lift (we tried). But the pure race skis worked well as set up for racers. Might be a fun testing experiment - would that affect binding placement? Big test.

Fun thread to follow. I hope it snows so much this winter that I only take out my powder skis. I'm OK with sacrificing my wallet and buy race skis to insure that I'll never get to try my new skis!

Eric

 

[KingGrump]

are much harder to throw tricks on.

Not sure that is a thing you want to do on a pair of FIS SL.

I don't race. But I often ski on a pair of FIS Sl. They are loads of fun. Yeah, definitely play with the binding placement. Made a big difference for me.

 

[Philpug]

...and are much harder to throw tricks on.

Eric

Depends, if that trick is going fast with G-Force short turns with your bip on the snow...there is no better ski.

 

[HeluvaSkier]

@Philpug - try to keep your bip off the snow. I don't really know what your bip is, but I'd keep it out of the snow none-the-less.

 

[Viking9]

Hey heluva or anyone else , I'm looking at the Rossi this year but doesn't the binding slide on the plate so that in theory you could move it instead of just lining up your BSL say 315 and locking it in???

 

[James]

On other skis, I didn't care too much for the lifting plates I tried.

Well one big reason plates, or at a minimum lifters, are necessary is edge angle. It would be fairly easy to boot out on a slalom ski if the binding was mounted flat. Especially in "packed powder". Boots outs can be violent and dangerous.

What are these "tricks" you're doing? A 13m Fis slalom would be better than an 11m consumer, but hardly ideal.
Part of the advantage to the heavy ski is the damping. And again, they have to endure the gate slamming the shovel.

You might like the Exo Exonde ski. Light, no metal. Swiss.

Here's a cheap used one.
http://www.powder7.com/Exonde-XO-V7...MIgYWqlKDs1gIVDVmGCh28XQ7LEAQYASABEgIZ4fD_BwE

 

[HeluvaSkier]

Hey heluva or anyone else , I'm looking at the Rossi this year but doesn't the binding slide on the plate so that in theory you could move it instead of just lining up your BSL say 315 and locking it in???

I don't recall if the binding slid or not... I did try two or three mounting points on the ski though, so maybe that is how it was possible.

What I will say about the newest version of the Rossignol slalom is that it skis very different from how other SL skis, and even how previous Rossignol SL skis used to ski. The narrow tip relative to the tail and extremely far forward mounting point makes the ski more rewarding to a neutral/aft stance versus a more traditional very forward stance for SL turns. The design makes the skis turn from the back instead of the front. Coupled with (at least the WC-start version I tried) the VERY stiff flex, the skis are extremely reactive but one bad fore/aft move and they are not controllable. HK is skiing a similar setup on the WC and it can be fast... but there are trade offs.

 

[Viking9]

Hey thanks heluva , I'm looking at the st version I like the idea of the 172 for my frontside adventures, the fis maxes out at 167 I believe. I'm real close to my wife saying in the immortal words of Ethline Tennanbaum ,,," write yourself a check "
It's funny in that what you don't like in the fis are the things that I actually like, I don't do a two ski carve, not a racer or groomer bomber ( although I will do some gs two ski carves on the second half of our race course runs when everyone leaves ) I don't like to use the tips of my skis and I definitely ski the middle back of my skis and encourage rebound.
Good luck and have lots of fun this year, that's a great avatar , looks like lots of power and athleticism!!

 

[HeluvaSkier]

@Viking9, The Hero ST is a far different, much more tame beast than the ski I was on. I was on a pair of hand-me-downs that were a real-deal ski with WC, EC and NorAM starts (and presumably finishes). The person who they belonged to switched over to Blizzard so he unloaded all of his Rossi gear. For the type of skiing you're describing, I think the 172 ST is a good ski, but I wouldn't expect it to share any of the qualities I described. If it did, it is merely coincidence.

 

[Viking9]

That makes sense , I don't have enough gas in the tank for a ski like that anymore !!
Thanks.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Hey heluva or anyone else , I'm looking at the Rossi this year but doesn't the binding slide on the plate so that in theory you could move it instead of just lining up your BSL say 315 and locking it in???

No, the binding does not slide on a plate on the Rossi/Dynastar slalom. You can move it by mounting in different holes on the plate, depending on your boot size. Some of the lower end models may have a system type binding that allows you to move it a bit.

 

[Viking9]

Thanks old timer !

 

[ScotsSkier]

The Atomic X20 EGA can more fore and aft like the old ESS V/A/R, not suprisingly. Most race plates are now pre drilled so you can move for and aft. Takes about 5 minutes to do with a power driver.

Phil, all the Xvar series - the 12, 16, 18, 19 and 20 can move fore/aft with 7 different positions. On the X20 EGA you can move the toe piece up to 2 degrees side to side. The X20 is quite a bit heavier than the others though. i use them on my Artomic speed skis but i have to be honest, I keep them in the neutral side to side position. Not brave enough to try offset on a speed ski!!

 

[razie]

When Jimmy Cochran was on the U Ski team, I talked to him in the summer and he said he did a lot of equipment testing that Spring. I asked what brands and he said, "No, only my brand and it was mostly on binding placement" . I would like to test some binding placement, but kinda a pain. Bring back the ESS VAR !!

Most Atomic race skis come with the X-Race binding, which slides on a rail - you can move it back and forth with the slide of a switch, really.

I have a lot of Head/Fischers and they're a pita - it takes re-drilling to move the thing.

Experimenting with the binding placement is a good idea.

 

[HeluvaSkier]

I have a lot of Head/Fischers and they're a pita - it takes re-drilling to move the thing.

Yep, just mounted two pairs tonight... plates and bindings on one... Huge pain in the ass.

 

[James]

The narrow tip relative to the tail and extremely far forward mounting point makes the ski more rewarding to a neutral/aft stance versus a more traditional very forward stance for SL turns. The design makes the skis turn from the back instead of the front.

Interesting.
Dimensions
Tip - Waist - Tail radius

Dynastar Fis R21 WC
116.5 - 67 - 103 13m
Rossignol Hero Fis SL (R21WC)
116.5 - 67 - 103 13m

Blizzard Fis SL
116.5 - 65 - 101.5 13m

Atomic Redster S9 Fis
117.5 - 65.5 - 101.5 12.5m

WORLDCUP REBELS I.SL RD (Fis)
119 - 68 - 103 12.8m

Fischer- no info


http://www.dynastar.com/en-us/product/speed-wc-fis-sl-r21-wc

http://m.rossignol.com/US/US/hero-f...oduct--alpine-men-skis-fis-racing.html#techno

http://www.blizzard-ski.com/products/sl-fis-racing/

https://shop.atomic.com/en-us/products/redster-s9-fis-m-x-16-var-aa2813.html

https://shop.head.com/en-IC/ski/skis/race/worldcup-rebels-i-sl-rd-24.html

 

[Swede]

I'm sure you are correct about the real effects of weight. Might even be worth a couple hundredths in a race. But heavy skis hurt my knees on the chairlift and are much harder to throw tricks on. The engineer in me, who has played with exotics like carbon and boron, wonder if a light ski with the same stiffness, rebound and damping would be better.

Hard snow days and gates are probably the least weight sensitive conditions.

My wife doesn't race but liked the flat bindings on her old race skis. On other skis, I didn't care too much for the lifting plates I tried. My waterskis are measurably better without any lift (we tried). But the pure race skis worked well as set up for racers. Might be a fun testing experiment - would that affect binding placement? Big test.

Fun thread to follow. I hope it snows so much this winter that I only take out my powder skis. I'm OK with sacrificing my wallet and buy race skis to insure that I'll never get to try my new skis!

Eric

Manufacturers try to find little advantages all the time with new material and carbon has been used, perhaps more so in consumer skis afaik. When actually skliing -- weight has little, if any at all, impact on the performance unless perhaps you're in a park or doing big air or something ... I wouldn't know about that. But not when we're talking about a SL race ski used as intended. This is a sport where the best skiers produce G-forces two-three times their own weight in each turn. Sorry to hear about your knee.

 

[dj61]

Yes Rossi and dynastar are the same. The Rossi/dynastar is changed this year in the 165. Iirc 2mm narrower in the shovel and the plate moved forward slightly. Mine are being delivered next week so I can give you a comparison against the 17s I have. They are slightly softer than the atomic and head but at this level, as K2rat said, it is small degrees of difference. In fact it is less about stiffness than characteristics/feel. The head feels the most damp if you just free-ski them ...but...I found that forme they were quickest in gates when I switched to them a couple of seasons ago (I was on blizzard and dynastar Prior to that). They are all top class skis though and I have some of my athletes on all of them. Before giving some further pointers it would help if you gave us some stats on yourself - age, weight, height, race experience (and points if you have them) and level of racing you are competing in as this will impact what the sets are

You only have to look at the Rossi and the Dynastar to see they are not identical. But they are made in the same factory and share a lot of ski characteristics.

 

[markojp]

Hey Scotsskier, what's the buzz on mount point for 17-18 iSL RD's?