Marker WC Plate on Brahma?

Discussion in 'Hardgoods: Skis, Bindings, Poles, and More' started by DVL, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Thread Starter
    TS
    DVL

    DVL At the base lodge Skier

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    Not a question of money for me, plus I'm able to get my hands on it much cheaper than $500 - but once again, I don't really care about the money right now.

    Maybe - I'm not sure, but a guy told me it's probably possible ...

    But right now from what I get from all the feedback is, that it maybe isn't a good idea to change the basis flex of the ski, but it might be a good thing to get some lift and gain some leverage -> if more leverage has no negative effect for riding trough crud, than it should at least be a good thing for the moments I get on hard piste / ice, because there it definetely should help...

    So the conclusion is I need a plate that doesn't do anything signifficant to the flex (some "two pieces plate"?), but is still a very solid from the "connection between the plate and the bingings" perspective.

    Does that make any sense?

    Btw I'm and will be using Atomic Hawx Magna 130 boots.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  2. flbufl

    flbufl Putting on skis Skier

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    Actually, slightly raised bindings on wider skis relieves some of the knee stress wider skis cause:)

     
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  3. flbufl

    flbufl Putting on skis Skier

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    What do plates do:
    • Raised height:
      • Preventing booting out. Only a problem on hard snow.
      • High edge angle with less movement. Again, usually only good for hard snow. On soft snow, edge grip is not a problem. No need for high edge angle. However, for wider skis, this help to relieve some knee pressure wider skis cause.
      • Slightly higher COM of the skier. A disadvantage for tricky soft snow condition.
    • Increase the stiffness of the skis, though not all plates do that. Again, usually only good for fast skiing on hard snow. You ski slower in soft snow, ideally need softer skis.
    • Plates of good design should supposedly evenly distribute your weight on the skis, make the skis bend more naturally. This is good for both hard snow and soft snow.
    • Dampening. Very useful for hard snow skiing. But still somewhat good also for soft snow.
    • Added weight (though in the middle of the skis, not much swing weight). Disadvantage for skiing require frequent and quick change of direction, e.g., mogul skiing.
    So you can see why plates are usually used for hard snow skiing. But I don't think it is that much a bad idea to put a pair of relatively soft plates on wider skis.

     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  4. Muleski

    Muleski Skiing the powder Industry Insider

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    I had a couple pairs of the early generation Brahma, 187cm. When they arrived, I mounted them flat. I was never totally enamored with the ski. I mounted a second pair with the plates that @ScotsSkier mentioned, the two piece Head RDX. I frankly didn't notice a significant difference. Certain no knee pain. It didn't turn the ski into some hard snow carving wonder. Nor did it really wow me in sifter snow.
    I found myself pulling my real hard snow skis when the surface was firm, and if it was soft and had a bit of fresh snow, going right to my 187cm Bonafide. These were the gist two generations of both skis.
    The plate might be a good idea, just not on that ski for me. No downside, I guess, but no big plus.

    I used to plate every single ski I had, and have gotten away from that in recent years. Anything in the 90mm and wider range, I'm skiing flat. Have have a pair of monster 88's, and I do wonder about a RDX plate on them. RDX generally adds the ski a touch more damp, but don't affect the flex.

    Back on the day I used to go through a TON of VIST riser plates, Basically 10-14mm shims under the front and rear bindings. Did not affect flex. Those seem to have gone the way of the dodo bird.

    I guess all you can do is give them a try? Tryrolia/Head plate might be the best option. Can use any binding, can be drilled a number of times.
     
  5. flbufl

    flbufl Putting on skis Skier

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    I am still using them. Also seems still popular in Europe. They are still paring them with Stockli skis. The only complaint I have for VIST plates is they are damn heavy!

     


  6. Muleski

    Muleski Skiing the powder Industry Insider

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    These were not VIST PLATES. I've had a whole bunch of those, as did my kids. Yes, heavy, durable and in some cases, changed the skis performance quite a bit. They used to private label plates for Elan. 15 years ago?

    I'm talking about their older plastic lifters. I guess we could call then plates, but they were made of some type of plastic. Very light. All they did was rise the binding. Most of ours were 10mm, some 14mm. They ended up on my skis....not on skis being raced. I sold a number of them on here. Wish I had kept them.....

    When you accumulate too much stuff, and feel the need to clean out, sometimes you clean out the wrong "stuff!" HaHa.

    I think that @cantunamunch bought a pair of Stocklis with these risers on them. Maybe two pairs of them? Should probably have kept those skis, too!
     
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  7. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    The ones @Muleski was referencing look like this
    front
    [​IMG]
    back:
    [​IMG]

    ABS, 10mm thick, drillled for about any binding under the sun and, frankly, weigh almost nothing.
     
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  8. Muleski

    Muleski Skiing the powder Industry Insider

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    ^^^^^ And can be drilled "a few times!!" HaHa.
     
  9. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    Did you ever have the two-part ones, with the 4mm of vibration damping material underneath the top plate plastic?
     
  10. flbufl

    flbufl Putting on skis Skier

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    I see, those are more like lifters than plates.

     
  11. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    I suppose; it's kinda hard to tell when to stop using one and start using the other. Everyone calls the RDX 'plates'. :huh: But, yeah. :daffy:
     
  12. Muleski

    Muleski Skiing the powder Industry Insider

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    Yes, I did. Worked well. I also have a pair of real deal SkierCross skis, right off the WC. The VIST plate that came with them had a ton of damping material.

    Yep, thought I had tried to explain that. Guess it wasn't clear:

    "Back on the day I used to go through a TON of VIST riser plates, Basically 10-14mm shims under the front and rear bindings. Did not affect flex. Those seem to have gone the way of the dodo bird."

    Good product. Don't believe they are available/made. Like may others. Salomon used to make 2mm risers for 916's and 920's. Yellow, the exact size of the binding footprint. Only available through the race reps. Incredibly functional. May need to make a few for some STH2 16 toes. Last ones are under some STH steels.

    Agree the RDX "plate" is IME more of a riser. They also have a lot of plates that the "general public" never sees. That "plate" works really well for a lot of people, though. I have found that they work well on my Head i.speeds. Well enough that my new pair came with them, and were branded as i.speed Pro.

    Plate, Riser.....whatever. Sounding like another forum.....
     
  13. flbufl

    flbufl Putting on skis Skier

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    This is one of the Vist plate I have. I am a fan of Vist skis and plates...

    image1.jpeg

     
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  14. Thread Starter
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    DVL

    DVL At the base lodge Skier

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    Thanks for the feedback, all of you!

    So I decided I will go for a 2 piece plate that has minimum influence on flex...

    What do you think about the Vist WC Air (Vist WCA) - could that be it? Only to gain a lift and dampen vibrations ...

    Are there any other similar or even better race plates with a stiff connection with the bingings, yet corresponding the same "don't change the natural flex of the ski" philosophy?

    Unfortunately I wasn't able to find any RDX plate available for sale so far... but maybe that Vist could be even better for those purposes?
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  15. Dakine

    Dakine Getting off the lift Skier

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    The Marker WC plate can be mounted eight different ways depending on what you want it to do.
    When mounted in the most flexible position, I doubt it affects the flex of the ski nearly as much as a flat mount.
    To me, plates allow the ski to flex into a continuous curve without a flat spot under the boot and the Marker plate setup uses the piston damper to reduce vibration in the foreski.
    The whole setup is far less rigid than some of the monster solid aluminum plates used on slalom skis.
    I still don't see a reason to use a race plate on a crud buster like a Brahma.
    Plates are for carving machines.
    IMG_0414.JPG
     
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  16. Mike King

    Mike King AKA Habacomike Instructor

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    Go flat with Look Pivots.

    Mike
     
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  17. Thread Starter
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    DVL

    DVL At the base lodge Skier

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    The goal and a solution I'm looking for is to make the ski better for firm piste with no negative effect on crud or anything else - Once again, I love GS performance turns on a firm piste - that's my primary target and I want to know if there is a way how to boost the ski even further to get the most possible GS performace of it on a firm piste w/o any negative effects on crud.

    Yes, of course I will not take those skis out for a firm piste intentionaly, but that doesn't mean I will never ride those skis on a firm piste - it CAN happen. You take them out for a crud and eventually find yourself on a firm piste time to time during the day... Especially if you go skiing in France (big height difference over the mountain).

    So... why not to make the skis better for something, if it doesn't ruin anything?
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  18. Dakine

    Dakine Getting off the lift Skier

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    You are preaching to the choir.
    All my skis are plated except for my Kastle FX94's.
    The plates reduce the vibration that causes my old knees to complain.
    To me, the only reason to not use a plate is to reduce weight.
    I just sold a complete new WC piston plate/excel 16 setup on eBay for $250.
    It was in Phi's Garage but nobody bit on this deal.
     
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  19. Thread Starter
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    DVL

    DVL At the base lodge Skier

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    That VIST WC Air weight about 0.5kgs - its just a lift with minimum to none effect on natural flex of the ski that "Distributes force gradually along the entire ski and is therefore less aggressive". So therefore I assumed that's the way to go if I was about to put a plate there, which I am now according to what I found out from all the feedback so far.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  20. Dakine

    Dakine Getting off the lift Skier

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    I'm short so I like some lift for leverage but not too much as leverage works both ways.
    I doubt that a plate on a slug like a Brahma will do much but, again, I use plates to reduce the vibration from high speed carving.
    I believe that I can ski longer on a plated ski with less fatigue.
    You haven't heard that argument yet......
     
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