Marker WC Plate on Brahma?

DVL

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I just bought the 2018 Blizzard Brahma 187cm w/o bindings or a plate (just clean skis).

I'm 27 yo, aprox. 105kgs, and I'm quite an aggressive skier who loves clean, long GS turns. I'll be using the skis on piste only, during bad conditions days (soft/chopped/unmodified/destroyed snow on piste), so no freeride, no really deep powder snow and no really big bumps (or at least not intentionally)...

I bought those skis to be able to go as much "GS" as possible in bad conditions on piste. And I started wandering about putting the Marker World Cup Piston Plate on them to improve stiffness, edge grip and stability etc. even further.

Would the Marker Plate improve the ski's ability to smash trough soft / destroyed / snow covered piste in any way? Would the skis be able to do to even more-like "GS turns" ins such conditions?

The thing is, I don't need to improve those skis' GS turns capability on firm groomers or ice... for that I have race/sport skis. So I would consider putting the plate on the Brahma only if it adds some extra GS capability in conditions unsuitable for true GS skis. I'm hoping it makes sense to you...

I know those skis are very stiff even w/o any plate, especially in this length, but I'm very good skier (love fast and powerful GS carving) and not afraid of making the ski more stiff (should I?) ... but what I'm afraid of is, that it might ruin some of the ski's key attributes, because I assume it is not designed for such plates.

So... Could there be any downsides of it in terms of ski's performance? Or it can only add Pros?

And... is it even possible to mount AllMountain Marker bindings on that plate?
Is there a point of having AllMountain/Freeride bindings on those skis given the fact I want them for piste only?
 
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Doug Briggs

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The WC plate, if we are talking about the same thing, only supports Marker Comp bindings. If you mean by AllMountain Marker bindings you mean the 'Royal' series, then I don't think they'll go on the plate; the plate is a hostage plate meaning it is pre-drilled for a particular type of binding. The heel pattern is complete incompatible with a Royal binding. The toe pattern has some of the same hole placements, but not all.

upload_2019-2-27_13-40-51.jpeg


I don't think a lift would improve your ability to drive through snow. Lifts help with leverage, typically laterally, to attain better grip. They also help reduce 'boot-out'. Dealing with crud at speed is a matter of having a strong body core to help drive the skis through the snow.
 
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The WC plate, if we are talking about the same thing, only supports Marker Comp bindings. If you mean by AllMountain Marker bindings you mean the 'Royal' series, then I don't think they'll go on the plate; the plate is a hostage plate meaning it is pre-drilled for a particular type of binding. The heel pattern is complete incompatible with a Royal binding. The toe pattern has some of the same hole placements, but not all.

View attachment 66743

I don't think a lift would improve your ability to drive through snow. Lifts help with leverage, typically laterally, to attain better grip. They also help reduce 'boot-out'. Dealing with crud at speed is a matter of having a strong body core to help drive the skis through the snow.
Yeah, that's the plate I meant (or the black one). Ok - so no benefits fot that use I guess. Thank you!

I thought I might get some more edge grip and stability not due to leverage, but primarily due to the stiffness of that plate itself, which would improve the stiffness of the ski under foot. So beeing a bit higher above the ski due to the lift factor of the plate would mean weaker body core, which is a bad thing for dealing with crud at speed?

There are even 10mm Marker WC plates - those would be better than the 14mm ones than.

So you recommend no race plate at all because of the lift factor? Maybe some ADJ plate for the bindings adjustments?
 

Doug Briggs

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If you are only using the Brahmas on days when there is soft snow on the piste, I would think you'd have plenty of grip from the 3D snow.

I don't typically lift wider skis. My Ranger 98s are flat, as are my MX98s and certainly anything wider. Even my Pinnacle 88s are flat. Only my race skis are lifted.
 

Lance

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I ski the Brahmas flat with a Look Pivot binding and they can arc a pretty clean GS turn in almost any condition except ice.
 

cantunamunch

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So beeing a bit higher above the ski due to the lift factor of the plate would mean weaker body core, which is a bad thing for dealing with crud at speed?
You're reversing the logic - the core (including the connection to upper legs) is used to stabilise a ski in place of plates; this doesn't mean plates are bad for core strength.


There are even 10mm Marker WC plates - those would be better than the 14mm ones than.

So you recommend no race plate at all because of the lift factor? Maybe some ADJ plate for the bindings adjustments?
Some of us have plates on 80mm+ skis. If you really want to ...

Here is an RDX plate with Atomics on a Monster88 (credit: @ScotsSkier)

 
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You're reversing the logic - the core (including the connection to upper legs) is used to stabilise a ski in place of plates; this doesn't mean plates are bad for core strength.




Some of us have plates on 80mm+ skis. If you really want to ...
Ok, thanks. So if the lift factor leading to a bigger leverage is not either a PRO or a CON in any way for going trough crud at either lower or higher speed, what about the added stiffness delivered by that plate - is that a PRO or a CON for fast GS-like turns in crud?
 

cantunamunch

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Ok, thanks. So if the lift factor leading to a bigger leverage is not either a PRO or a CON in any way for going trough crud at either lower or higher speed
That's not been clearly established, but taking that as a working hypothesis:

, what about the added stiffness delivered by that plate - is that a PRO or a CON for fast GS-like turns in crud?
The trick is to not add a flex hinge point to the ski. That's usually bad, in a chattery way. Yes, I've done it, and regretted it.
 
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That's not been clearly established, but taking that as a working hypothesis:



The trick is to not add a flex hinge point to the ski. That's usually bad, in a chattery way. Yes, I've done it, and regretted it.
So that's a CON based on experience there?... Ok. Though I'm not sure what you meant be "a flex hinge point". What skis exactly are we talking about - smth like the Brahma?

Those Monsters 88 aren't entirely the same ski as the Brahma, but they are similiar regarding the flex (both pretty stiff) as far as I know. That RDF plate is a "race plate" as well, similar like the Marker? But than there's a question why the @ScotsSkier put it there - for groomers or for crud, or both, or a completely different reason?

To @ScotsSkier: Could you please reveal the reason of your Monsters 88 having that plate? And what do you think about Brahma + WC Marker Piston?
 

cantunamunch

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So that's a CON based on experience there?... Ok. Though I'm not sure what you meant be "a flex hinge point".?
Yes. A hinge point is a sudden change in flex so that one section of ski has one curvature and a different section has a different curvature under the same load.

The RDX plate is a two piece plate - theoretically flex neutral. As a rule, my mistakes were with one-piece plates (Vist, Marker, Tyrolia) on a bunch of different skis.
 
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Doug Briggs

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I don't think that being slightly higher significantly impacts your ability to use the core to drive through crud. Your core strength is what it is. Being slightly taller affects it little. It might give your core a little more moment arm which either your core can deal with or it can't. If it can, the not a CON. If it can't then not a PRO.

In case you can't tell, I think lifts on skis not intended for hard snow carving or preventing boot-out is superfluous. ;)

Lots of folks that come from racing backgrounds like lifts on everything. I think they construe (not saying misconstrue or otherwise) that a lift is a PRO no matter the conditions or equipment. They are comfortable on lifts and like to be on them.
 

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I don't think that being slightly higher significantly impacts your ability to use the core to drive through crud. Your core strength is what it is. Being slightly taller affects it little. It might give your core a little more moment arm which either your core can deal with or it can't. If it can, the not a CON. If it can't then not a PRO.

In case you can't tell, I think lifts on skis not intended for hard snow carving or preventing boot-out is superfluous. ;)

Lots of folks that come from racing backgrounds like lifts on everything. I think they construe (not saying misconstrue or otherwise) that a lift is a PRO no matter the conditions or equipment. They are comfortable on lifts and like to be on them.
Doug, I prefer plates for a couple of reasons

1 they tend to smooth out the ski/dampen vibrations
2 they give me an opportunity to play about with the mount point (on my Monster 88s there were so many differing opinions on mount point i definitely wanted this, hence also teh X19 VAR that lets me easily play with position on snow.

Whether all this is my imagination or not I have been doing it for several years and not had any regrets about it
 
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I don't think that being slightly higher significantly impacts your ability to use the core to drive through crud. Your core strength is what it is. Being slightly taller affects it little. It might give your core a little more moment arm which either your core can deal with or it can't. If it can, the not a CON. If it can't then not a PRO.

In case you can't tell, I think lifts on skis not intended for hard snow carving or preventing boot-out is superfluous. ;)

Lots of folks that come from racing backgrounds like lifts on everything. I think they construe (not saying misconstrue or otherwise) that a lift is a PRO no matter the conditions or equipment. They are comfortable on lifts and like to be on them.
As @ScotsSkier said, the plates should dampen vibrations and not to cause them... that's weird that you have exactly the opposite experience. Besides, all skis have different flexes in different places in their basis, even w/o any plate... So why would a plate making skis slightly stiffer under foot cause chattering? I would expect completely the opposite effect, like ScotsSkier said... It works exactly like that for race and sport skis, so why not for something a little bit more wider? Plus, Brahma is a frontside heavy charger, probably the 2nd or 3rd stiffest AM on the market - it's basically like a wider GS that can cut trough anything (at least so they say...).
 
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cantunamunch

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, the plates should dampen vibrations and not to cause them... that's weird that you have exactly the opposite experience. Besides, all skis have different flexes in different places in their basis, even w/o any plate... So why would a plate making skis slightly stiffer under foot cause chattering?
I'm going to assume that was for me and not @Doug Briggs. It happens when the change in flex causes a large discontinuity (hence: hinge point) so that the edge cannot stay in the same groove. The tip is massively flexed and the less-flexed underfoot section breaks out of the groove - or the tip bounces back to neutral when the underfoot section fails to engage.

And yes, all skis have different flexes in different places in their basis - but that doesn't mean you can spot-change that flex regardless without bad consequences.

It works exactly like that for race and sport skis, so why not for something a little bit more wider?
You're right - it's got nothing to do with width. I can duplicate the effect on a sport ski no problem. But it's noticeable sooner on a wider ski because we angulate less on a wider ski.

Plus, Brahma is a frontside heavy charger, probably the 2nd or 3rd stiffest AM on the market - it's basically like a wider GS that can cut trough anything (at least so they say...).
Again, go for it if you like; I stand by my earlier thoughts and you'll probably like it. I merely mention a problem I've had with such setups in the past.
 

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What boots are you in? Put a 5mm lift on your boots and you now have more power/angle to drive any ski you step into.
 

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WC Plate and Excel clamps is over $500 retail.
That's one reason not to do it for a questionable performance advantage.
 

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The issue you also might get into is finding 90mm brakes for the Marker Race bindings...they haven't been produced in a while. I am not sure the Xcell is available with a wider brake option.
 
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