MA request

[Steve]

Nothing wrong with Rick's Inside Hip Drive, but think of it as a focus to play with from time to time, or later on.

One of my trainers told me that he was coached at a race camp at first to raise the inside hip 1", then later to now move it forward 1". All of these movements have potential value to us.

The more I learn though the more I see leg movements as the fundamentals. No need to take any action to "quiet the upper body." I just don't move it in the first place (I wish.)

And I justify the raising the inside hip as a leg movement, because it really does start at the legs. It's part of the retraction.

 

[HardDaysNight]

Spend some time watching WC GS or even slalom. Look at it in slo mo and notice at what stage of a typical turn hip counter develops and how it is created. Then ask an experienced race coach why. If you find that your observations and his explanation don’t align with the “ski into and out of counter” mantra (and you will), then take some of these authoritative sounding statements with the grain of salt they deserve.

 

[James]

s this some sort of ski slang I'm missing

No. Just means there's a lot going on while skiing down a slope so it's hard to isolate one movement like raising a hip. You'd prob ski better actually if we shot stuff at you so you can't think.

I didn't realize the hips want to be square to the skis, and not the fall line, when turning. Is that right?

They're not square to the skis. Basically they're at the same angle as the ski tips and boot tips. Watch Gillies vid again. He uses the word "square" but it's modified. I think he says "much squarer" or something.( That's a message to you in that they don't face down the fall line.) He then demos with the pole at the angle of the tips.

You really only face the fall line if you're doing short turns down the fall line. Or zipperline moguls.

Level schmeval. You could drive yourself crazy with this stuff. Ten years ago it was parallel shins people obsessed over. Lindsey Vonn is a failure with that one. Amazing how she was able to win 82 times on the wcup with technique people consider as ghastly from a parallel shins viewpoint.

In terms of counter you can ski into it or give yourself a little tension there. The tension can prevent full body rotation. That's a big subject.

 

[TheArchitect]

Nothing wrong with Rick's Inside Hip Drive, but think of it as a focus to play with from time to time, or later on.

One of my trainers told me that he was coached at a race camp at first to raise the inside hip 1", then later to now move it forward 1". All of these movements have potential value to us.

The more I learn though the more I see leg movements as the fundamentals. No need to take any action to "quiet the upper body." I just don't move it in the first place (I wish.)

And I justify the raising the inside hip as a leg movement, because it really does start at the legs. It's part of the retraction.

Rick's drills have worked well for me so far so I'm not surprised that this particular instance is a case of user error.

 

[James]

Here you go.

 

[geepers]

Hips/shoulders facing where? Well, it depends! @James said it already. AS in...


Shaxted is a CSIA L4 and is on the Irish demo team for Interski.

 

[TheArchitect]

No. Just means there's a lot going on while skiing down a slope so it's hard to isolate one movement like raising a hip. You'd prob ski better actually if we shot stuff at you so you can't think.

They're not square to the skis. Basically they're at the same angle as the ski tips and boot tips. Watch Gillies vid again. He uses the word "square" but it's modified. I think he says "much squarer" or something.( That's a message to you in that they don't face down the fall line.) He then demos with the pole at the angle of the tips.

You really only face the fall line if you're doing short turns down the fall line. Or zipperline moguls.

Level schmeval. You could drive yourself crazy with this stuff. Ten years ago it was parallel shins people obsessed over. Lindsey Vonn is a failure with that one. Amazing how she was able to win 82 times on the wcup with technique people consider as ghastly from a parallel shins viewpoint.

In terms of counter you can ski into it or give yourself a little tension there. The tension can prevent full body rotation. That's a big subject.

I watched Gillies again and I hear "the hips themselves are actually pretty square to the outside ski, they're not too open or closed". That's what I was referring to.

 

[geepers]

Rick's drills have worked well for me so far so I'm not surprised that this particular instance is a case of user error.

It's one of the issues working alone from vids. Feedback helps.

 

[James]

He's Irish with an Australian accent working in Canada.

 

[geepers]

He's Irish with an Australian accent working in Canada.

Definitely not an Australian accent. He's British.

This is an Australian accent.

 

[James]

I watched Gillies again and I hear "the hips themselves are actually pretty square to the outside ski, they're not too open or closed". That's what I was referring to.

I'm pretty sure that if you had something built "pretty square" and they really wanted square, you'd hear about it.
But yes, you could say he's a bit overly square. If you skied as badly as he does you'd be happy. Obsessing over the exact angle isn't productive.

 

[TheArchitect]

He's Irish with an Australian accent working in Canada.

Okay, that's funny. but watch from 41 seconds on in that video. I'm sure I'm right.

 

[TheArchitect]

I'm pretty sure that if you had something built "pretty square" and they really wanted square, you'd hear about it.
But yes, you could say he's a bit overly square. If you skied as badly as he does you'd be happy. Obsessing over the exact angle isn't productive.
View attachment 65046

I promise I'm not obsessing. I just want to understand the general concept. I appreciate all the help. I just wish I could get on skis this weekend to start putting it into action.

 

[James]

Okay, that's funny. but watch from 41 seconds on in that video. I'm sure I'm right.

Which vid? Gillie's or the Irish/Australian/British/Canadian vid?
(I think he spends time in the Southern hemisphere.)

 

[Skisailor]

Nothing wrong with Rick's Inside Hip Drive, but think of it as a focus to play with from time to time, or later on.

One of my trainers told me that he was coached at a race camp at first to raise the inside hip 1", then later to now move it forward 1". All of these movements have potential value to us.

The more I learn though the more I see leg movements as the fundamentals. No need to take any action to "quiet the upper body." I just don't move it in the first place (I wish.)

And I justify the raising the inside hip as a leg movement, because it really does start at the legs. It's part of the retraction.

Bingo Steve! This direction to a student - "raise the inside hip" is one of those things that confuses the heck out of most skiers, in my experience. I have a real pet peeve about instructors using that language to communicate to a student. Precisely HOW do we "raise the inside hip"? What muscles do we use? Should we all go to belly dancing school?? In skiing, what teachers and coaches are typically addressing is the relative state of flexion of our two legs in a particular part of the turn. And IMHO, THAT is what we should say and THAT is what we should have students focus on - the legs.

That said, I also teach methods that I believe are particularly efficient for recreational skiers that do not require the inside hip to be higher . . . . a DIRT situation of hanging onto a long outside leg through the high G force part of carved or blended turns - prior to flexing to release - that is muscularly almost effortless. So a higher inside hip is not something I'm always looking for.

 

[TheArchitect]

Which vid? Gillie's or the Irish/Australian/British/Canadian vid?
(I think he spends time in the Southern hemisphere.)

Here you go at the 40 second mark

 

[geepers]

Which vid? Gillie's or the Irish/Australian/British/Canadian vid?
(I think he spends time in the Southern hemisphere.)

It doesn't really matter which vid. At 41 secs Gillies gets to the bit about "...pretty square..." (although there's a lot of pole jangling) and at 41 secs Shaxted gets to the bit "....body starts to face the direction of travel..."

Kind of both on the same theme.

And also JFB at 4:04 - belly button pole pointed to outside ski tip.

Maybe try not thinking about your hips. Maybe think about making smooth rounded turns from transition to transition.

 

[Mike King]

Spend some time watching WC GS or even slalom. Look at it in slo mo and notice at what stage of a typical turn hip counter develops and how it is created. Then ask an experienced race coach why. If you find that your observations and his explanation don’t align with the “ski into and out of counter” mantra (and you will), then take some of these authoritative sounding statements with the grain of salt they deserve.

You mean like this?


Or this?


I don’t see any driving the hip forward in either of those. I see the legs turning under a stable upper body creating counter as a result.

 

[TheArchitect]

You mean like this?


Or this?


I don’t see any driving the hip forward in either of those. I see the legs turning under a stable upper body creating counter as a result.

Excellent videos, especially the first one. Thanks for posting.

 

[JESinstr]

I don’t see any driving the hip forward in either of those. I see the legs turning under a stable upper body creating counter as a result.

Totally agree Mike. How did so many of us who believe that we ski from the bottom up suddenly start proclaiming movement generated from pelvic region?
IMO, It is critical for the inside foot to be positioned underneath in order for the leg to be effective in performing rotary and edging functions. So When I think of it, It is the placement of the inside foot underneath that caused to inside hip to adjust forward. Not the other way around.