MA request: some bumps and carving on green...

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

Hi everyone! Took a lesson yesterday and the instructor was nice enough to video few runs (while skiing the same bumps).

I'd appreciate all and any feedback please!

Bumps #1


Bumps #2


Bumps #3


Carving (or racing turns as instructor called them)

 

[slowrider]

I would work on pressuring the shovels and countering to the outside of the turn when you are carving.

 

[Chris V.]

You are mostly traversing in the moguls, which is actually a very good way to start your practice, if you do it with the right focus. What you want to get from traversing practice is the ability to flex and extend, absorbing the terrain. However, many people misunderstand what they need to achieve. It's not just a matter of raising and lowering the legs. You also need to match the angle of the side of the bump with which you're in contact--front or back, right or left. So the tips will come up as you're absorbing, and then when you go over a bump you need to drive the tips downward into the hollow, tucking your feet back under your hips to adjust the fore-aft angle of the skis. Here's what I consider a really good segment by Tom Gellie that has been featured here before, with much more detail on how to get forward in moguls and how to absorb terrain: Much of the demonstration skiing is at a very high level, but you can aim for the same movements at a slower pace. While traversing, you should also work on holding an anticipated position--that is to say, with hips and upper body oriented down the fall line while your legs are pivoted in the hip sockets, and the skis are going across the hill. This will pay dividends later. Consider how all of this fits in with what your instructor had you do. The other major piece of the puzzle is learning to make excellent short turns on groomed terrain. This includes both brushed and carved turns, and learning to move at will from one to the other. That's a big subject. There are lots of other threads here about that, look around. All I'll say is don't skimp on the short turn learning and practice on groomers, it will end up helping you a lot on all terrain and in all snow conditions. When your short turns are really solid, and when your terrain absorbtion skills are really solid, and you put the two together, you should become quite good at skiing moguls.

 

[jack97]

I would work on pressuring the shovels .......

IMO, the vid below is the best drill to get forward and pressure the front of the ski.

 

[slowrider]

I'm confused? I never see the instructor lift his downhill ski to "start" the turn. Agree lifting the tail of a ski moves the skier forward. Pulling 1 or both skis back is also helpful.

 

[dbostedo]

I'm confused? I never see the instructor lift his downhill ski to "start" the turn.

It's a drill to get the feeling... not a suggestion that you actually start all your turns that way.

 

[Fuller]

Agreed, I'm a bit confused too. You could be lifting the tail of the downhill ski by standing on the inside ski but that doesn't sound like the right thing to do.

Recently I've been experimenting with holding both ankles closed (dorsiflexion) when I'm in the trees or bumps. It brings me forward and at the same time I get a better connection with my feet inside the boots. That gives me better control of the rotary part of the turns and also helps narrow my stance. I asked my instructor whether it would be ill advised to ski that way all the time thinking I was perhaps misusing the technique but he's OK with it.

 

[dbostedo]

I'm confused? I never see the instructor lift his downhill ski to "start" the turn. Agree lifting the tail of a ski moves the skier forward. Pulling 1 or both skis back is also helpful.

It's a drill to get the feeling... not a suggestion that you actually start all your turns that way.

Agreed, I'm a bit confused too. You could be lifting the tail of the downhill ski by standing on the inside ski but that doesn't sound like the right thing to do.

Ah... I see. Maybe the confusion is over the use of "downhill ski". Downhil and uphill really aren't the best to use because they change throughout a single turn.

I was assuming that "downhill ski" meant the new inside ski at the start of a turn (or the old outside ski as you finish the previous turn).

Recently I've been experimenting with holding both ankles closed (dorsiflexion) when I'm in the trees or bumps. It brings me forward and at the same time I get a better connection with my feet inside the boots.

That works pretty well for me. It's a better thought for me to remember to "flex my ankles" and feel tension in the front of them, than to think about "pulling the feet back". YMMV.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Recently I've been experimenting with holding both ankles closed (dorsiflexion) when I'm in the trees or bumps. It brings me forward and at the same time I get a better connection with my feet inside the boots. That gives me better control of the rotary part of the turns and also helps narrow my stance. I asked my instructor whether it would be ill advised to ski that way all the time thinking I was perhaps misusing the technique but he's OK with it.

There are two approaches to dorsiflexing. One is to proclaim that skiers ought to dorsiflex all the time to keep shin-tongue contact continuous. The other is to dorsiflex sometimes but not always, and when depends on turn mechanics.

The proof is in the pudding. If doing it all the time gets good results for you, do it. If it doesn't, don't, and figure out when you need to dorsiflex.

Which option works for each skier probably depends more on the skis' binding placement and delta than on something generalizable to all skiers.

 

[François Pugh]

Bumps:
1) Find your ideal speed (faster than 1st video, next two seem ok for you).
2) Maker more turns in the same space.
3) Don't let the bumps push you up; suck up the bumps.
Carving:
1) Tip your skis to a bigger angle; keep tipping them until apex, then untip them and retip into new turn and keep tipping further until next apex. Maybe work on a faster flex to release transition, maybe your not there yet.
2) Pull skis back
3) Make more turns.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

Thank you all for the drills suggestions and feedback.

here are my notes from the lesson. May be someone will find them useful:

Vision! Look where you want to go. Aim at a marker downhill and keep your eyes in it. Stop looking at the skis!

Side slips with vision down hill and hand aimed at a target
Pivot turns
Carve up hill and slide back; look back; hand back
Slide and proper hockey stop with poll plant
Straight down, slide and hockey stop

90 degree jump

Keep Elbows away from the body
Smooth movements to correct mistakes such as back seat or tucked elbows
Drag the poll during one leg balancing
Drag the polls during race turns

Read terrain; double fault line effect on bump shapes; steep lines in bumps because others were defensive

Start downhill with half turn in mind
Make one turn on a bump and a hockey stop on the next

Race turns: look at the next turn spot

Balance on the crest of the bump
Commit to a bump to make the turn on

the notes are a bit cryptic, sorry. they are just memory joggers...

 

[Fuller]

Ah... I see. Maybe the confusion is over the use of "downhill ski". Downhil and uphill really aren't the best to use because they change throughout a single turn.

I was assuming that "downhill ski" meant the new inside ski at the start of a turn (or the old outside ski as you finish the previous turn).

Yes, that's what's happening - he lifts the new inside ski leaving the tip on the snow, a variation of PMTS orthodoxy.

 

[Mike King]

In your bump skiing, you are almost always aft on the ski. Until you learn how to get over the center of the ski, you are not going to be able to do much. From an aft position, or a forward one for that matter, your ability to tip the skis from the feet up is very limited. So, the first thing you need to learn is how to find and stay in the center of the ski. You are not going to be successful in absorbing terrain, pivoting, or making tactical choices until you've got ownership of that skill.

How to find a centered stance? First, try standing still and try to hop. Do the tip and tail come off of the ground and land at the same time? If not, you are not in a centered stance. Feel where the pressure is on the sole of your foot. Lean all the way forward on the front of the boot. Lean all the way aft on the boot. Where do you feel the pressure on the bottom of your foot? In a centered stance, you should feel the pressure slightly in front of your heel. Not on the ball of the foot, or totally on the heel, but slightly in front of the heel.

Try making some gentle turns on groomed snow. March as you make your turn. If you are balanced on the center of the ski, you will be able to march, alternately picking up the inside and then the outside ski.

Try making smeared turns. Where do you feel the ski turning? It should feel like it is turning under the center, or the heel, of your foot.

Once you are in a centered position, and able to maintain it while skiing, then you will be in a place to start to work on the rest of the package. Until then, your stance will limit your ability to make progress.

Mike

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

Just for reference, I’m 5’11” (180cm) 160lb... second seasons after 6 year break from the sport... this is my fourth day on Atomic Redster X7 2019 model, 168cm, 70mm under, 15.5m radius

 

[slowrider]

Just for reference, I’m 5’11” (180cm) 160lb... second seasons after 6 year break from the sport... this is my fourth day on Atomic Redster X7 2019 model, 168cm, 70mm under, 15.5m radius

You'll have to work those boards or they'll work you.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

You'll have to work those boards or they'll work you.

I thought they were on the “softer” side! but no kidding I was tired after two hour lesson workout

 

[jack97]

Yes, that's what's happening - he lifts the new inside ski leaving the tip on the snow, a variation of PMTS orthodoxy.

Exactly, here's another vid of the drill done by freestyle team, starting at 0:16

 

[Noodler]

You'll have to work those boards or they'll work you.

X7 is actually pretty soft. The X9 is a different story.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

I went out yesterday and practiced most of the advice given. The hardest part is to do drills without an instructor to keep me focused and to remember all the cool new things I should be doing.

pressuring the shovels and countering to the outside of the turn when you are carving

Excellent advice, easy to remember and convenient to do through out the day

mostly traversing in the moguls, which is actually a very good way to start your practice, if you do it with the right focus

keeping the shape of mogul in mind kind of escaped me. I practiced anticipating. And started to learn dolphin turn. It's a long(ish) way from being called a turn...

learning to make excellent short turns on groomed terrain

Surprisingly, I improved a lot in that area yesterday! I'm attributing it to the advice from @François Pugh to tip the ski more though the turn. I was able to go slow (like really slow) with a lot of turns down a groomed black. Usually, I accelerate more and more because my turns are not short enough to dump the speed.

the best drill to get forward and pressure the front of the ski ... is to lift downhill ski while pressing the tip down....

Love this drill... have been doing for a while but this time I drove the turn with the tip of the lifted ski - really cool sensation.

There are two approaches to dorsiflexing

I have not figured out what's my preferred way (and I didn't remember to pay attention yesterday). I am probably more of a "press the front of the boot" kind of guy.

Tip your skis to a bigger angle; keep tipping them until apex, then untip them and retip into new turn and keep tipping further until next apex. Maybe work on a faster flex to release transition, maybe your not there yet.

Maker more turns in the same space.

Tipping skiis to a bigger angle was an eye opener - thank you! It made it so much easier to make more turns in the same space (on groomers). Still not there yet with pulling my legs back. Committing to a bump to make a turn on does not always work... I chicken out and make a turn on the next one (or the second one... or the third one...)

In your bump skiing, you are almost always aft on the ski

yes... yes I am... I was working on finding the center stance but did not practice marching on easy runs - was distracted by having fun. More work need to be done.

Thank you everyone. I'll keep working....

 

[jack97]

I would work on pressuring the shovels and countering to the outside of the turn when you are carving.

Surprisingly, I improved a lot in that area yesterday! I'm attributing it to the advice from @François Pugh to tip the ski more though the turn. I was able to go slow (like really slow) with a lot of turns down a groomed black. Usually, I accelerate more and more because my turns are not short enough to dump the speed.

Pressuring the shovel when tipping the ski through the turn will slow things down, its another mechanism for speed control. See the vid below, 9:17 outlines this drill. I sometimes ski behind a skier or rider and keep a constant distance by adjusting the pressure I apply at the front.