I disagree with some of what JESinstr has just posted.
JESinstr posted:
The whoopsie turn begins with a hooking (bowed leg lead) of the new inside leg accompanied by an inward inclination (lean) of the upper body. Violation of Fundamental #2: Control pressure from ski to ski and direct pressure toward the outside ski . His inside edging movements and body lean at this point in the process produces a bias for directing pressure to the inside ski. This non-adherence also creates a divergence situation between the skis.
First, there's no problem with momentarily loading the new inside ski at turn initiation. Tip divergence is bad, and for various reasons, but it is not a necessary result of letting weight stay on the new inside ski at the very top of the turn. The skier who begins a turn with a bowed new inside leg, which is flexing, will be light on the skis above the fall line so the inside ski will not necessarily diverge. Weight may stay momentarily on that new inside ski, but if it does that missing outside ski pressure will grow all on its own by the fall line in a flex-to-release initiation.
However, I saw no tip divergence in any of these turns. And I can't see any tip divergence here in this turn. JESinstr may be guessing that there's tip divergence, and if he has never done the particular release that he's describing which keeps weight on the inside ski at first ("weighted release"), he may expect tip divergence is a natural result - but it isn't.
Furthermore, this skier in this turn is not doing a weighted release. His head moves up at initiation. He is shortening the new inside leg and tipping its ski onto the little toe edge, yes, as JESinstr points out, but at the same time he is lengthening the new outside leg. That combination moves his head upward - somewhat. Any new outside leg extension will direct pressure toward the outside ski immediately. A turn that starts with new outside leg extension, even when accompanied with flexing the other leg, will get that outside ski pressure early in the turn, earlier than in a true weighted release.
Can we tell from the video what the pressure distribution would be in this turn? No, but if we look at other turns, giver the consistency of the turns, we can guess that there is no tip divergence, and that pressure goes directly to the new outside ski immediately.
Important point: the fundamentals as they are currently stated do not tell anyone when in a turn anything is supposed to happen. Thus there can be no violation. The pressure goes to the outside ski when the skier wants it to, and in his other turns it does what he intends. In this turn, the snow snake struck, and the recovery was handled just fine.
JESinstr posted:
In regards to Fundamental #1 Control the relationship of the Center of Mass to the base of support to direct pressure along the length of the skis. .... With the divergence comes a "to the rear" bias affecting the COM-to-BOS relationship hence the need to rotate (Skid) the outside ski to try and "Catch up" with the inside as is evidenced by the resulting spray.
When a skier is flexing that new inside leg for a weighted release ((which JESinstr is describing but this skier is not doing), weight indeed does move momentarily toward the back of the skis as the hips go down.
JESinstr is right, that momentary movement of weight back can be quite prominent in a deeply flexed release. But there is not necessarily a problem with such a turn start. Any true flex-to-release turn drops the skier's body quickly into the new turn (momentarily aft), skis tip dramatically and fast onto new edeges, and then weight moves forward over the skis because the body ends up ahead of the skis. Such a skier will no longer be aft by the fall line, when the pressure mounts on that outside ski.
But this particular turn does not have this much flexion, and from the given camera angle we can't see if the skier's weight is consequently over the tails or not. JESinstr may be working, not from observation, but from a belief that a skier MUST load the tips at the very start of every turn, and that going bowlegged at turn start necessarily puts the skier aft. Perhaps JESinstr also thinks that Fundamental #1 says that a skier always needs to load the tips to start a turn. It doesn't, and we don't know if this skier loaded the tips in this turn; no good side views!
Fundamental #1 doesn't indicate which end of the skis need pressure anyway, nor at what time in a turn they need that pressure. Thus no violation of Fundamental #1 is possible.
==============
PSIA intentionally shaped the fundamentals to help examiner determine whether a skier has versatile control over the skis. The fundamentals do not to tell us how to ski. That's why the. writers left out any prescriptions of what to do when. The fundamentals can't be "violated."
A versatile skier will exhibit notable control over all kinds of variations and be able to use those variations when needed as regards fore-aft pressure regulation, lateral pressure regulation, vertical pressure regulation, edge angle regulation, and regulation of rotational dynamics. High control using a wide range of variations nets a score of high skills on all five fundamentals. Skiers who only have one turn, who use only one set of turn mechanics, won't be getting any high scores.
JESinstr posted:
The whoopsie turn begins with a hooking (bowed leg lead) of the new inside leg accompanied by an inward inclination (lean) of the upper body. Violation of Fundamental #2: Control pressure from ski to ski and direct pressure toward the outside ski . His inside edging movements and body lean at this point in the process produces a bias for directing pressure to the inside ski. This non-adherence also creates a divergence situation between the skis.
First, there's no problem with momentarily loading the new inside ski at turn initiation. Tip divergence is bad, and for various reasons, but it is not a necessary result of letting weight stay on the new inside ski at the very top of the turn. The skier who begins a turn with a bowed new inside leg, which is flexing, will be light on the skis above the fall line so the inside ski will not necessarily diverge. Weight may stay momentarily on that new inside ski, but if it does that missing outside ski pressure will grow all on its own by the fall line in a flex-to-release initiation.
However, I saw no tip divergence in any of these turns. And I can't see any tip divergence here in this turn. JESinstr may be guessing that there's tip divergence, and if he has never done the particular release that he's describing which keeps weight on the inside ski at first ("weighted release"), he may expect tip divergence is a natural result - but it isn't.
Furthermore, this skier in this turn is not doing a weighted release. His head moves up at initiation. He is shortening the new inside leg and tipping its ski onto the little toe edge, yes, as JESinstr points out, but at the same time he is lengthening the new outside leg. That combination moves his head upward - somewhat. Any new outside leg extension will direct pressure toward the outside ski immediately. A turn that starts with new outside leg extension, even when accompanied with flexing the other leg, will get that outside ski pressure early in the turn, earlier than in a true weighted release.
Can we tell from the video what the pressure distribution would be in this turn? No, but if we look at other turns, giver the consistency of the turns, we can guess that there is no tip divergence, and that pressure goes directly to the new outside ski immediately.
Important point: the fundamentals as they are currently stated do not tell anyone when in a turn anything is supposed to happen. Thus there can be no violation. The pressure goes to the outside ski when the skier wants it to, and in his other turns it does what he intends. In this turn, the snow snake struck, and the recovery was handled just fine.
JESinstr posted:
In regards to Fundamental #1 Control the relationship of the Center of Mass to the base of support to direct pressure along the length of the skis. .... With the divergence comes a "to the rear" bias affecting the COM-to-BOS relationship hence the need to rotate (Skid) the outside ski to try and "Catch up" with the inside as is evidenced by the resulting spray.
When a skier is flexing that new inside leg for a weighted release ((which JESinstr is describing but this skier is not doing), weight indeed does move momentarily toward the back of the skis as the hips go down.
JESinstr is right, that momentary movement of weight back can be quite prominent in a deeply flexed release. But there is not necessarily a problem with such a turn start. Any true flex-to-release turn drops the skier's body quickly into the new turn (momentarily aft), skis tip dramatically and fast onto new edeges, and then weight moves forward over the skis because the body ends up ahead of the skis. Such a skier will no longer be aft by the fall line, when the pressure mounts on that outside ski.
But this particular turn does not have this much flexion, and from the given camera angle we can't see if the skier's weight is consequently over the tails or not. JESinstr may be working, not from observation, but from a belief that a skier MUST load the tips at the very start of every turn, and that going bowlegged at turn start necessarily puts the skier aft. Perhaps JESinstr also thinks that Fundamental #1 says that a skier always needs to load the tips to start a turn. It doesn't, and we don't know if this skier loaded the tips in this turn; no good side views!
Fundamental #1 doesn't indicate which end of the skis need pressure anyway, nor at what time in a turn they need that pressure. Thus no violation of Fundamental #1 is possible.
==============
PSIA intentionally shaped the fundamentals to help examiner determine whether a skier has versatile control over the skis. The fundamentals do not to tell us how to ski. That's why the. writers left out any prescriptions of what to do when. The fundamentals can't be "violated."
A versatile skier will exhibit notable control over all kinds of variations and be able to use those variations when needed as regards fore-aft pressure regulation, lateral pressure regulation, vertical pressure regulation, edge angle regulation, and regulation of rotational dynamics. High control using a wide range of variations nets a score of high skills on all five fundamentals. Skiers who only have one turn, who use only one set of turn mechanics, won't be getting any high scores.
Last edited: