MA and what to focus on next.

[razie]

I think it likely that the boots are adjusted TOO LOOSELY, so that she collapses forward in them and then must compensate by sitting back so that she doesn't lose her balance completely. We see this with many, many students. To repeat, hips back are often a symptom of boots being too loose, rather than too stiff.

She's planted firmly on the back of the boots, because they offer support while not restricting the ROM for balance. It's typical.

She's gliding a lot. Not really turning much. The priority would be to get her to actually turn across the slope some.

Braquage, pivot slips and developing a good hockey stop is important.

At this stage, a lot of it is a range of motion awareness issue. They have no clue how much range of motion they need, to put the skis on edge, to balance on that edge etc.

Get her to touch the boots in transition. Touch the toes throughout the turn. Touch the outside boot. Airplane turns while touching the outside boot. Touch the snow. etc.

Develop the balance: take a ski away. Hop turns, shuffle turns, step turns.

Once she starts to show some awareness of the body, then you can start with some technical development.

 

[dj61]

I had a situation like yours years ago. My youngest was and is a talented skier, but like yours she was very small for her age and she still is. Therefore she had to ski kids stuff that she had outgrown skiwise. Kid boots, kids ski’s will not help you develop proper form and technique, although you can see that your daughter is trying to and she shows all the signs of future development into a great skier.
I found my solution in junior race boots and skis. A bit more expensive than kids stuff, but you get better boots and better ski’s in smaller sizes. And do not let the ‘race’ label put you off.
Now she is 15 and able to ski regulat women boots and slalom ski’s and I only see the back of her helmet when we ski together.

 

[T-Square]

Two words to remember about her boots: Master Bootfitter.

All the internet advice will not replace having her boots fitted by a competent bootfitter that you trust.

 

[Pdub]

The best way to deal with this is to get her good new boots that are fitted by a professional, multi-event junior race skis, and sign her up for your Development Team next winter. The race coaches will have her carving beautiful arcs by the end of the season. The advice here may be correct but it is complicated and potentially contradictory and you are probably not equipped to convert this advice into good results. If you outsource this to the pros, she will improve much more quickly and will have a great time with her new ski buddies.

 

[markojp]

Mike, I think Otto or Phil might help when if and when they're available. Haven't had time to look at the articles, but certainly will. Always good to think these things through.

 

[Bolder]

The best way to deal with this is to get her good new boots that are fitted by a professional, multi-event junior race skis, and sign her up for your Development Team next winter. The race coaches will have her carving beautiful arcs by the end of the season. The advice here may be correct but it is complicated and potentially contradictory and you are probably not equipped to convert this advice into good results. If you outsource this to the pros, she will improve much more quickly and will have a great time with her new ski buddies.

Given her obvious athleticism and already good style, this is probably the best advice. Our 11 year old son will be doing the first competition level in the ESF next year, which means he'll be running gates a little bit every day.

 

[T-Square]

I’ve moved the extraneous Bootfitting discussion to this thread. Bootfitting Discussion from the thread: MA and what to focus on next.

Please keep the discussion in this thread focused on the Original Poster’s question.

 

[john petersen]

There is a movement, though small, to begin looking at boots that have more flex in them, especially for kids. Rossi, I believe, has an experimental boot out there now to test this, and I have seen first hand on a 5 year old how well it works. The ability to flex the ankles will do wonders for the rest of the movements that your daughter is trying to make happen by overflexxing at the knee and hip...I can see her trying to do it right! (and many times she is).......

Im blaming boot fit.

of course habbits form and she is overcompensating for lack of ankle flex...but its not for lack of trying. she is a good little skier with relaxed posture and smooth movements for the most part.

if we can get her confident in pressuring the front of a boot that performs appropriately for her age, size and ability (hopefully next year when she is one year older) then her skiing will improve quite a bit.

JP

 

[Nancy Hummel]

There is a movement, though small, to begin looking at boots that have more flex in them, especially for kids. Rossi, I believe, has an experimental boot out there now to test this, and I have seen first hand on a 5 year old how well it works. The ability to flex the ankles will do wonders for the rest of the movements that your daughter is trying to make happen by overflexxing at the knee and hip...I can see her trying to do it right! (and many times she is).......

Im blaming boot fit.

of course habbits form and she is overcompensating for lack of ankle flex...but its not for lack of trying. she is a good little skier with relaxed posture and smooth movements for the most part.

if we can get her confident in pressuring the front of a boot that performs appropriately for her age, size and ability (hopefully next year when she is one year older) then her skiing will improve quite a bit.

JP

I disagree that she needs to “pressure the fronts of the boot”. She is certainly athletic and aggressive but she is not tipping or using leg rotation. Those movements are more difficult to do will ill fitting boots but boots will not solve her issues unless she changes her movement patterns.

 

[DavidSkis]

I disagree that she needs to “pressure the fronts of the boot”. She is certainly athletic and aggressive but she is not tipping or using leg rotation. Those movements are more difficult to do will ill fitting boots but boots will not solve her issues unless she changes her movement patterns.

I suspect boot fit could be impeding her ability to ski. There is no reason not to check it.

I'd agree with you about not needing to "pressure the fronts of the boot". There is some weird instructor myth that skiers must press against their cuffs at the start of the turn and "get forward". IMO, pressuring the fronts of the boot is a great way to rotate into the top of the turn, twist the tails out at the end of the turn, lock yourself into a turn shape, and get caught up in the chowder, crud, and powder. What most skiers should seek, again IMO, is a way to find equilibrium through the arc.

 

[john petersen]

How about if I had said engage the boot to work the ski efficiently from an appropriately balanced stance for a kid her age?



JP

 

[Nancy Hummel]

How about if I had said engage the boot to work the ski efficiently from an appropriately balanced stance for a kid her age?



JP

John, proper fitting boots will do their job. I prefer to think of movement patterns and not think about pressuring/engaging the boot. I think when you tell people to pressure or engage the boot, they interpret that as pushing on the boot which is not necessary. I choose to stay away from using those terms.

 

[Tlri]

After a long 3 weeks off snow we will be heading back to the mountain this weekend.
First thanks again for all the dissection, consideration, and conversation.
What I’ve gathered as the consensus is to focus on a taller more neutral stance, shins touching but not heavily pressuring the front of her buckled boots. Progressive motion of all joints while keeping COM forward though turn and active tipping on and off edges with round turn shape.

Tasks that clicked the most with me were 1000 steps and lifting tail of inside ski. I think the combination of skills needed for these and faster pace will keep her interested and developing. Pivot slips make sense for edge work and independent leg movements but will be harder to get a 10 yr old to stay patient for for any extended time. Maybe I can mix it in as we ski some steeper terrain.

Thanks again. I will try to get some more video as things progress.

 

[dj61]

After a long 3 weeks off snow we will be heading back to the mountain this weekend.
First thanks again for all the dissection, consideration, and conversation.
What I’ve gathered as the consensus is to focus on a taller more neutral stance, shins touching but not heavily pressuring the front of her buckled boots. Progressive motion of all joints while keeping COM forward though turn and active tipping on and off edges with round turn shape.

Tasks that clicked the most with me were 1000 steps and lifting tail of inside ski. I think the combination of skills needed for these and faster pace will keep her interested and developing. Pivot slips make sense for edge work and independent leg movements but will be harder to get a 10 yr old to stay patient for for any extended time. Maybe I can mix it in as we ski some steeper terrain.

Thanks again. I will try to get some more video as things progress.

I think the consensus here was that she will not make any progress unless she had better boots and skis.

 

[Tlri]

She’s progressed to where she is now with this gear and we have about 8 more days on snow this season. My thought was to continue skill development while we were out there instead of giving up.
It doesn’t make financial sense to buy new skis or boots now with the prospect of her growing between now and November.

 

[T-Square]

Go out play, have fun, enjoy sliding. When she comes back next year with the new gear she will be eager to ski, have fun, and learn.

 

[dj61]

She’s progressed to where she is now with this gear and we have about 8 more days on snow this season. My thought was to continue skill development while we were out there instead of giving up.
It doesn’t make financial sense to buy new skis or boots now with the prospect of her growing between now and November.

If you do not want to buy: rent!

 

[Tlri]

Bringing this back to life...
A season and a half later, now 11yrs old, longer stiffer skis and a Rossi 4 buckle junior “race boot“ with a power strap, think it’s about a 70 flex.
Added to the mix is a younger brother (8yrs old) with the same Rossi boot and a tendency to drop his inside hand because it “feels cool”.

Open to advice on things to work on.
I see them ski enough I think I get zoned in on things and sometimes miss the big picture.
They are both at about 12 of 30ish days on snow this winter.

 

[Fuller]

I'm not qualified to have a firm opinion but they both look like they are having fun!

 

[James]

Cute! What width skis is she on? Look a tad wide for carving development on hard snow.

Really have them focus on the feet. There’s a tendency to move towards a position. The countered one in the middle of the turn. They should get there by supporting what’s going on with the skis, not just go there because.

Fun things for the feet:

Tuck turns. In a tuck, initiate a turn just by rolling a ski on edge. Do shallow turns, not a lot across the fall line, first. After a while, they can go more across the fall line. With that, more body position comes in play.

Flat terrain doing that and you really have to be patient and let the skis turn you.

Going straight on a flat cat track, stand balancing more on one leg. (You’re moving) With the other foot, roll from flat to big toe and back. Then try flat to little toe. That may be impossible, depending on their boot. Then do rolling big toe to little toe and back continuously.


Almost anything slidey, where you’re using the feet a lot to control edge angle. Drift turns, then back to on edge just with feet. Falling leafs.

Arcs uphill to flat slide, patient and slowly steer tips down then keep tipping inside foot and arc back uphill to flat slide, repeat.

For body position and edging, seeing how far they can carve uphill is pretty good. It’s fun too. You just need space so they don’t get hit arcing across the hill.

Another extension of that, if you have a steepish to a flat open space, no crowd, is trying to ski a circle. Tuck down the steep, then on the flat turn and see if you can get all the way around the clock. Can’t step around, skis stay on snow, esp at the end.
Like the uphill arcs, you don’t get far if you wash out at first. Another fun competition, even if alone since you go around the clock.

Another fun thing to do is have them try to stop at a point without trying to stop. Let’s say your stopped downhill of them on the left side. If they come down on the left, they then have to go right, do a big arc and come uphill, coming to a stop using only gravity that slows them down. Lots of planning and estimation involved.