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MA and what to focus on next.

Tlri

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Here’s a quick video of a 9yr old female.
What do you see and where do you go next?

Boot is a 2 buckle with the top buckle as loose as it will go while still buckled to help open ankle ROM.

 

karlo

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Love her skiing. I never told my daughter what to do with respect to movements, except short leg-long leg.. I simply pointed out to her what good skiers were doing. Like, notice those tracks, they look like railroad tracks. Can you do that? (your daughter can). Look how that skier is not jumping over that bump, but still getting air. On and on.
 

PTskier

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Look at 10 & 11 seconds. Her hips are well behind her heels. That's a very bad habit to get into. She needs to be up, balanced, hinged forward at her ankles, not bent knees & bent waist sitting back. She is squatting down for no apparent reason.

Buckle her boots. She needs the support. Forget ankle range of motion. Get her center of mass over the sweet spot on her skis, a bit forward of her toe bindings. That means that she stands tall with loose joints, not bent forward at the waist, hinged forward at the ankles with buckled boots.

Notice how her feet diverge then converge. 31 seconds gives a good look at how she has too much weight on her inside foot. Practice with her with the inside ski tail held an inch or two, no more, up off the snow. Let the inside tip drag on the snow while the inside tail is lifted.

But...one thing at a time. Get her balanced fore & aft on her skis first. Then work on the other stuff.

This video gives a good demonstration:
 
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Tlri

Tlri

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Hey thanks for the feedback.
I agree she is hinged at times but saw it as compensation for lack of ankle flex and trying to get pressure forward. When the top of her boot is buckled she has little dorsiflexion, preventing the knee from coming forward and putting her center of mass back. I think that’s where the hinged waist started.
Good thought on lifting inside ski tail. Almost a modified javelin turn. Could help with both balance and separation.
 

PTskier

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We don't really want the knee to come forward. We want the center of mass to be balanced over the toe bindings. The CoM is somewhere in the lower truck of the body depending the the skier's physique. We want the legs to be almost straight except when there is a good reason to bend one or both. We want the waist to be softly straight. Look at the body position of the skier in the video at about :44 seconds. He's upright and loose. Joints are just a bit flexed. His hips are never behind his heels.* His chest is over his toe bindings. He's balanced and centered. (*When making down-unweighted, absorption, retraction turns the hips will always be behind the heels when both legs are flexed, but this momentary movement is OK because the skis are unloaded then.)

Lifting only the tail of the inside ski (a) adds the stability of the ski tip remaining on the snow, (b) helps the skier stay centered, not back. The tail doesn't need to be lifted as much as shown in the video--this high lift makes for a great demo video. Lifting the entire ski puts some skiers into the back seat as well as being difficult to ski on one ski for many. The early weight change to the new outside ski is very important for controlled, rounded C & S shaped turns vs. the too-common Z turn shape.

As always, make one change at a time. Practice, practice, practice until the skier gets a good handle on the new movement, then add another new movement. Pick a ski run that is easy enough to set the skier up for success.
 

Nancy Hummel

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I suggest some sideslips in a corridor to work on edge release and fore/aft balance. Take the sideslips into turns. Focus on flexion of the new inside leg early in the turn to allow pressure to go to the outside ski.
 

T-Square

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Great skiing she’s well on the way. Good speed and control of skis.

Drills:
  1. Ski backwards, this will get her to pressure the front of the boots.
  2. Skate up light green slope. Again this will draw her forward.
  3. Sideslips. Great for balance and learning to pressure the skis.
  4. Falling leaves. Sideslips with variations of area being pressured on the skis.
  5. 1000 steps. You have to be centered to do step turns.
  6. One ski turns with the inside ski lifted with tip on the snow.

Make up games incorporating these drills.

Finally, how about a boot fitting? Minor changes with the boot can be very helpful. She might need heel lifts to get her leg positioned so she can properly pressure the boot tongue.

Have fun. It looks like she is fun to ski with.
 

Josh Matta

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If a skier is feeling the fronts of their boots while skiing backwards its exactly the same problem as skier who feels the back of their boots while skiing forwards.
 
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Tlri

Tlri

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Paul, not sure I follow or if I do not sure I agree.
If the goal is to get the COM over the front of the binding wouldn’t you want ankle flexion?
If your ankle was blocked from flexing and you flexed knees/waist/spine wouldn’t this result in a hinged type stance?

Here are 2 more videos of same skier to consider.
The first video in my eyes shows progressive motion of the ankle and a more aligned or stacked stance.

The second video, I think, shows ankle motion blocked resulting in a more backseat and hinged position.
 

Nancy Hummel

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It appears she is just shifting her weight laterally instead of actively releasing the edge and tipping or turning her legs. On some of the turns, her new inside leg slides forward in scissoring type motion. I would attempt to slow it down and ask her to make more C turns and focus on active tipping or turning of the legs. Pivot slips would be good also.

The fore/aft issue could be due boot issues/ramp angle etc. I can't tell from this video.
 
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T-Square

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If a skier is feeling the fronts of their boots while skiing backwards its exactly the same problem as skier who feels the back of their boots while skiing forwards.

I know it is exactly the same issue. However, it gets the student to feel the tongue of the boot against her shin. It helps her learn that feeling and know the boot will support her. At nine years old it’s a good experience and helps open her up to a fuller range of experience and sensations.
 

PTskier

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Paul, not sure I follow or if I do not sure I agree.
If the goal is to get the COM over the front of the binding wouldn’t you want ankle flexion?
If your ankle was blocked from flexing and you flexed knees/waist/spine wouldn’t this result in a hinged type stance?
So, what happens if her boots are buckled and she leans forward with her body straight? Unless her ankles just don’t flex, she’ll lean forward as much as her boots will flex. That’s good. If that’s not enough, she needs boot work. We want the hinging in the ankles, not the knees or waist. Refer again to the easy, balanced, centered stance of the skier in the instructional video. Are her skis too short to support her? In the vid they look short. Could that be part of the problem?

A problem with backward skiing is that the skier might get the habit of leaning toward the hill. Bad. The benefit is the skier learns the feeling of their skis on the snow instead of over thinking how to ski.

She’s really doing great except for that backseat skiing. Squatting with the knees & ankles flexing just to flex them accomplishes nothing except to tire her. The goal must be to move her center of mass forward. Can you get her to stand taller during most of her skiing? Only flex down as the turn progresses toward the end of the turn. The exercises in posting #7 are good except as already noted. Instead of drills, invent games that accomplish the same thing. One is to ski while exaggerating how far forward the straight body can lean. Way, way forward. Silly forward like a clown. Then when skiing smoothly, forward won’t feel scary-forward.

I see what Nancy is seeing, but we know that the backseat skiing makes everything harder. When she gets centered & balanced everything will get easier, and that will be the time to work on turn shape, etc. Work on the single most important movement first.
 
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Chris V.

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This girl needs to learn to stand in a centered stance, over the entire foot, with her shins in contact with the tongues, and then stay with that through the turn cycle. What the video is showing is some ability to move forward at turn initiation, but then a consistent habit of quickly sitting back. The result is a lack of force on the front ends of the skis, an inability to engage the edges in a carve, and turns that quickly wash out into accelerating diagonal runs.

You say, "Boot is a 2 buckle with the top buckle as loose as it will go while still buckled to help open ankle ROM." Most two buckle boots, especially children's sizes, are quite soft to begin with. To my eye, this girl is displaying quite a high forward shin angle at turn initiation at many points, for example at 16, 28, and 35 seconds in the first clip. I think it likely that the boots are adjusted TOO LOOSELY, so that she collapses forward in them and then must compensate by sitting back so that she doesn't lose her balance completely. We see this with many, many students. To repeat, hips back are often a symptom of boots being too loose, rather than too stiff.

On top of any equipment issues, if she has been skiing for a number of years, this girl is likely displaying the legacy of a small child stance that she never shook off. She needs to realize that she now has a stronger, more mature body, and is capable of standing tall and forward while skiing. This mental adjustment is challenging for many children.

With equipment appropriately adjusted, I would prescribe a practice program including:

1) On gentle terrain, straight runs starting parallel, and then repeatedly slipping into and out of a wedge. The goals should be to maintain a good stance throughout, to become comfortable and confident with that tall stance, moving aggressively down the slope, and to develop the ability to create good edge angles and put forward pressure on those edges, strongly engaging the snow.

2) Parallel traverses, with a transition into parallel J-turns starting from increasingly steeper downhill runs. Goals should be, again, a good, aggressive stance throughout, the patient creation of edge angles through knee angulation, and the creation of continuous, rounded, carved turns by harnessing ski performance.

3) Starting on a very gentle slope, linked parallel turns, with a strong focus on continuing turns across the hill as far as possible. A goal should be to continue each turn until the skis slow so much that they nearly, but not quite, stall out, and to move smoothly into a new turn in the other direction. If this girl is unable at first to perform this in a parallel stance, back off and do it first with with wedge turns.

She should initially perform these tasks slowly, on gentle terrain. She should develop the feeling of driving the skis forward by pressing her shins into the boot tongues.
 

agreen

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No MA here but as a father of 10 and 6 yr old daughters I just want to say I think she is kicking ass and is on her way to be a great skier. I haven't seen too many videos of a 9 yr old with a fully centered or forward stance making perfect turns. I'm sure they exist but I haven't seen them.
 
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Tlri

Tlri

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Hey thanks all for the kind words and ideas. Really appreciate people putting in the time to watch and consider and give feedback. Lots to think about.
I’m definitely interested to play around with the boots and buckles next time we’re on snow (3 weeks from now). Its hard to slow her down to work on things, she’s a big fan of moving and I try to work little ideas in that I can give her a 1or 2 word movement goal and then try to give her a good demo to follow.
Of everything discussed I think she’d be interested in and benefit from a combination of thousand steps (hard to do without good fore/aft balane and gets her moving lateral to the new turn) and turns with inside tail up (think this will help position her forward and be a challenge she’ll enjoy. I agree I need to stress turn shape and finishing the turn with both of these,this can be a challenge as she’s likes to ski fairly fast.
Will hopefully get a few shots during these exercises after some mileage with them. If so I will post it for review/feedback
Thanks again!
 

PTskier

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Remember the 3 rules for children...
Safety
Fun
Skills
...in that order.

Are her skis long enough and have enough backbone for the skiing level she’s showing? If they aren’t supporting her adequately, everything’s harder. She’ll probably be due for new boards next year.
 

James

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An unbuckled top buckle in a two buckle kids boot is a recipe for being aft. It's no problem to ski normally in non high stress situations with an unbuckled top buckle in a 130-160 flex plug boot. (It also has a booster or power strap which the kids probably doesn't) In a kids boot that sounds like a disaster. If the body senses there is no forward support it will stay back fearing it will pitch forward. It's basically unconscious. You can talk and drill forever but you're putting a body in an unstable setup. It will seek stability and stay aft.

The child looks like they're beyond a two buckle kids boot unless it's a good one. (If such a thing exists)
 
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Josh Matta

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no one has said but real truth of the matter is most 2 buckle kids boots are entirely too upright for anyone to actually be able to ski well in. Go buy some real boots.
 

PeterMN

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It appears she is just shifting her weight laterally instead of actively releasing the edge and tipping or turning her legs. On some of the turns, her new inside leg slides forward in scissoring type motion. I would attempt to slow it down and ask her to make more C turns and focus on active tipping or turning of the legs. Pivot slips would be good also.

The fore/aft issue could be due boot issues/ramp angle etc. I can't tell from this video.

see sound advice quoted and bold above... I agree and see quite a bit of tip lead that causes her hips to rotate/twist/counter toward the outside of the turn,... putting pressure on the backs of boots etc... tipping the skis with her ankles is a skill that will help with this.

I like to read what Josh posts, he has a good eye and gets directly to the point... I will add to this quote though....

no one has said but real truth of the matter is most 2 buckle kids boots are entirely too upright for anyone to actually be able to ski well in. Go buy some real boots.


And those boots would be?...

Fitting boots over the internet is not good practice... but I thought I would get you started in a direction that has worked for my kids.

I have had good luck with Lange boots... consider checking out a Lange RSJ 60 - likely too soft for a 9 yr old, then try the RSJ 65 and if that dosent seem right they do make a RSJ 70...

Good Luck

P
 
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Tlri

Tlri

Putting on skis
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Boots were hard to find this season.
I’ll have to check the boot size but unfortunately we were limited in options. she wears the same size boot as her 6yr old brother. She’s on the low end of average height for her age but has small feet. I believe this is a dalbello boot. I had added a slight heel lift to see what that would do and it did move her forward slightly. I think she will benifit from growing a little over the off season. As some have noted, these skis are ok for herbut on the short side. This is the end of her second season on them and they will be passed down the her brother next year and she'll move up in length.

I completely agree with the scissoring movement analysis. This was something that we had worked on a little the last few days out. She was stating to be more aware of tip lead and working on keeping both skis engaged throughout the turn and transition.
 

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