Loveland Demo Day Tomorrow

[Noodler]

I tend to prefer a "bossy carve" ski, than a "no carve" ski.

For me the Mantra needs a deeper sidecut. I think I would like it more at about an 18m sidecut instead of at 21m. I had to get them up really high on edge to get them to come around as quickly as like (of course that's lots of fun, but would wear me out quickly through the course of a ski day).

 

[cantunamunch]

Really surprised @Noodler didn't get on an X9 or X9W.

Would someone try to describe the snowfeel of 3D sidecut?

 

[Noodler]

Really surprised @Noodler didn't get on an X9 or X9W.

Atomic didn't bring the X9 Wide Body, but they brought the X7 WB. Go figure. The Atomic guy tried to convince me that it would be worth getting on the X7 WB, but I didn't bother.

 

[Ken_R]

Atomic didn't bring the X9 Wide Body, but they brought the X7 WB. Go figure. The Atomic guy tried to convince me that it would be worth getting on the X7 WB, but I didn't bother.

Also I think the X9 I demoed did not have a good tune. Seemed base high to me.

 

[cantunamunch]

If you liked the V8 and V10, the X7W is a quite reasonable contrast, in a playful direction.

Also I think the X9 I demoed did not have a good tune. Seemed base high to me.

Yeh, I read that. A crying shame on a ski like that.

 

[ski otter 2]

Atomic didn't bring the X9 Wide Body, but they brought the X7 WB. Go figure. The Atomic guy tried to convince me that it would be worth getting on the X7 WB, but I didn't bother.

The main Atomic guy is Mike McQ. He is such a peach of a guy, with long, long experience in the ski biz with a number of brands. Among wonderful brand guys, he is a great among greats. I just wish that, for me at least, his brand, Atomic, wasn't going through a bit of a low ebb currently, except for their race skis.

The X9 was probably out when you checked. It was out a lot. Bug green. Because of tune, you were better off to wait for another day, and possibly an S9 or G9, not sure. Last year I tried an X9 WideBody, and it was, for me, just too locked into its particular carve for such a precise ski; for me it felt confining/entrapping - yikes. (I was told by Phil that probably it was just the tune, because for him it was great - probably so, not sure.) It felt just stuck on one turn shape/speed and feel.

 

[ski otter 2]

Also I think the X9 I demoed did not have a good tune. Seemed base high to me.

Yes, exactly. I can confirm this. I wasn't totally sure what was dulled about it, edges or base high; but when I checked the edge, it seemed okay. So I'd concluded "base high" as well, eventually.

It was, indeed, as @cantunamunch noted, a real shame. I'd wanted to try out that Atomic Skier Cross feel. Oh, well.

 

[Ken_R]

Yes, exactly. I can confirm this. I wasn't totally sure what was dulled about it, edges or base high; but when I checked the edge, it seemed okay. So I'd concluded "base high" as well, eventually.

It was a real shame. I'd wanted to try out that Atomic Skier Cross feel. Oh, well.

It only really felt good in certain parts of the turn. Initiation was pretty weak for such a ski so I will give it another go at a later date if I get the chance. Looks awesome though! Atomic is making some awesome products so this was a shame. I want to demo more of their skis for sure.

 

[ski otter 2]

Say, Ken_R, did you ever find that 178 or 186 V-Werks Mantra ski in and available? I sure hope so.

 

[Ken_R]

Say, Ken_R, did you ever find that 178 or 186 V-Werks Mantra ski in and available? I sure hope so.

I wanted but it was out whenever I went by the tent. I missed it once by about 5min

 

[ski otter 2]

I wanted but it was out whenever I went by the tent. I missed it once by about 5min

Dang. Sorry about that. Maybe you can try mine (178, but it is an earlier 1.5 cm camber version, skier cross like), since I have Marker Schizos on them, and those are adjustable for both mount point and boot size. (Warning: it turns more like a skier cross ski or SL ski, rather than the cheater GS feel of the other two V-W Mantra versions!!!!!)

Or you could soon try the more GS like version I seem to have just set aside today.

 

[ski otter 2]

It only really felt good in certain parts of the turn. Initiation was pretty weak for such a ski so I will give it another go at a later date if I get the chance. Looks awesome though! Atomic is making some awesome products so this was a shame. I want to demo more of their skis for sure.

Last season, Mike the brand rep, had a G9 183/r19.4 I got to demo, that I am still trying to get my hands on/to buy, somewhere, somehow (though hopefully, not at full retail price. Ouch.) It felt almost the same as the Head Rebel WC iSpeed Pro 183/19.7, at the same SIA demo, which was just as good, and that I've tried to get also, either one would do.

If you ever get a chance to try either one of these, please do. I could have flipped a coin to figure out which of these skis I'd like to own - pretty much equal.

But generally, only Europe gets these skis. If a U.S. brand rep takes the plunge and invests in one of these, they tell me, usually he has to dump it off on a specialty race ski dealer at a loss, with very few or no shop orders for that ski to show for his investment. Again and again, these reps have told me they lose money on getting these types of skis for their demo fleet.

Another shame. I sure wish I could help change the U.S. market to love - and buy - these kinds of skis. But with their race or near-race plates & bindings, these skis are pretty pricey, without some sort of deal.

 

[ski otter 2]

I tend to prefer a "bossy carve" ski, than a "no carve" ski.

For me the Mantra needs a deeper sidecut. I think I would like it more at about an 18m sidecut instead of at 21m. I had to get them up really high on edge to get them to come around as quickly as like (of course that's lots of fun, but would wear me out quickly through the course of a ski day).

Gad. Yes. This makes a lot of sense. Helpful. A clearer way of thinking about it than I had come up with.

I haven't taken my M5 pair out yet this season because it is more GS-like (even at 178), and for me, unless I make that extra effort to shorten the radius constantly, as you say, they need just too much space and speed for early season WROD or crowded skiing, not to mention the possible edge damage lately. This would be even more true if I had them with bindings at the height of the Marker demos we tried them on at Loveland, as I've tried them previously, including last year at SIA.


I think partly in line with what you describe well, I got them and like them with a huge, higher demo Look SPX binding on them, at least a cm higher than a normal binding (as if there was a race plate); much easier to lay over more with less effort, more control. (Though that binding has been discontinued, and apparently had mechanical/compatibility problems I may yet face.)

Note: Volkl at demos uses the lower Marker demos (part of the same company), whereas, I demoed the M5 at first at Copper demo rentals, and they have a contract to put Rossi/Look demo bindings on everything they can. Hence my accidental discovery that the M5s, at least for me, ski better with that Look binding, or more binding height.

 

[ski otter 2]

P.S. The V-Werks Mantra does not have this problem, for me, at least, in the 178.

P.P.S. This coming Sunday is the first of two Bentgate demo days at Loveland, starting first thing in the morning. (The second one is Dec. 15th, I believe, also a Sunday.)

At least in the past, they bring a fairly good selection of skis for both Alpine and Backcountry boots. Emphasis on soft snow or backcountry skis.

(Not sure if you can sign up in advance or not.)

 

[ski otter 2]

Bentgate demo details: (Cost $20 for unlimited all day ski demos; or $35 with lunch, a brew and a raffle ticket - plus $40 for lift ticket if needed.) Sign up is at the mountain beforehand, but they suggest you sign their waiver online beforehand, I gather.

https://www.bentgate.com/nov-24-loveland-ski-demo/

(They list the 10 brands that are represented, including DPS, maybe Moment, etc. Probably mostly soft snow skis, not sure.
In the past this has been a neat demo, with the skis in racks higher up on the mountain rather than tented in the parking lot - easier on an old guy's stamina.
Almost every ski is in duplicate form: one with alpine bindings, one with backcountry.

 

[Ken_R]

Bentgate demo details: (Cost $20 for unlimited all day ski demos; or $35 with lunch, a brew and a raffle ticket - plus $40 for lift ticket if needed.) Sign up is at the mountain beforehand, but they suggest you sign their waiver online beforehand, I gather.

https://www.bentgate.com/nov-24-loveland-ski-demo/

(They list the 10 brands that are represented, including DPS, maybe Moment, etc. Probably mostly soft snow skis, not sure.
In the past this has been a neat demo, with the skis in racks higher up on the mountain rather than tented in the parking lot - easier on an old guy's stamina.
Almost every ski is in duplicate form: one with alpine bindings, one with backcountry.

I will be there!

 

[Noodler]

I will be there!

I've got nothing better to do, so I guess I'll slide on snow again using other people's equipment and hanging around with you yo-hos.

 

[ski otter 2]

So, actually went to this demo, and both @Noodler and @Ken_R were there, steering in generally the right directions.
New ski standouts, in a good way:

The Black Crows Orb 88 (179.4 & 184.5) is back, stiff again after going soft for a few years: Whatta great ski. Very dialed in and fun, to me tops, on and off piste .

K2 Mindbenders: Oddly, last year at SIA I didn't like the 90, and stopped. Turns out there's the MB99, what a charger and carver (kills slush and crud too). Both the MB 108 and MB 116 c were promising also: relatively okay on groomers - want to try both in soft snow.

Icelantic Pioneer. Want a soft snow (and groomer) ski that is carvy chargy like the Faction Dictator 3.0, and with a very similar lance-like shape and feel - but without that ski's (needless?) unforgiving nature? That's the new Pioneer. Want to try it in powder. It charges groomers similarly to the Dictator (except forgiving).

Icelantic Nomad 105. 191. @Ken_R clued me in that this ski is not great on p.m. skied off groomers, especially on early season WROD groomers. Without its great corduroy or soft snow edgehold, it loses its luster and feels a bit dead.
But for the first two hours on corduroy, wow. (And probably all morning, as long as the corduroy lasts, during the regular season.) What made me aware of this ski is that three elite racer background skiers gs ski with huge angles on this ski amazingly, so far this season, at least for a few hours each a.m. here at Loveland. It's a cheater, low effort gs ski, then, for me as well, a special ski for that niche use (and a bonus soft snow ski also, that Blistergear says is a great powder floater and crud ski also - its intended primary use, I gather; very damp and stable, but more forgiving and playful in soft snow: it's a long twin tip).