Looking for recommendations on a New England Daily Driver, Hard Snow edition

Discussion in 'Hardgoods: Skis, Bindings, Poles, and More' started by ScottB, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Jean-Benoit

    Jean-Benoit Putting on skis Skier

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    Yeah, I'm 6'6"/200lbs and loving them (in 175). The OP does have 40lbs on me, but the new AXs don't feel at all soft to me - just a hint of welcome compliance when the terrain gets a little roughed up. I didn't get to try the previous version, but by a few recent accounts here, the new ones are stiffer. I'm reasonably sure they can handle a stronger and/or heavier skier than me. Besides, I doubt ANY Stockli (at least in their Laser line-up) could really be called all out SOFT.
    If still in doubt, the 183 is even more ski - but I suspect the fun factor will start taking a hit, unless one is super agressive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  2. Thread Starter
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    ScottB

    ScottB Getting off the lift Skier

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    I listened to everyone,

    Here is my revised list with my comments:

    Fischer RC One 86 GT - "rips, it's what you want. Stop here." It sounds good to me, will make sure I get on one soon
    Fischer RC4 The Curv DTX, 178 cm - found the ski on a close out, couldn't resist, we'll see if its my new race ski or DD
    K2 Ikonic 84 TI, 184cm - I still want to try this ski, I can rent one from a shop I know. I usually agree with the Blister review
    Kastle MX 84, 184cm - I saw Tony S ski well on his pair, want to get on this ski as well

    Fischer Pro Mtn 86 Ti -- It sounds like the carving version of my Liberty Origin 96, will look for close outs
    Rossignol Hero Elite Plus Ti, 181cm -- I like Rosi's so I kept it on the list
    Stockli AX, 183 -- I know this is a good ski, maybe MDF will let me try his at the NE gathering.

    Had to whittle it down some how. Guess I am going to get on some Fischers soon. I have actually never skied a Fischer, so will be a new experience. I heard their skis typically carve well, so that will probably line up well with my style and tastes. A ski buddy has a new K2 Super Charger in my length, so I will check that out as well, but I don't expect it to be versatile, just a ripper.
     
    Erik Timmerman likes this.
  3. Mike King

    Mike King AKA Habacomike Instructor

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    The MX84 is my daily driver -- at Snowmass. I ski it in everything -- glades, steeps, groomers, bumps. I plan to take my Level 3 exam on this ski.

    It is a ski that does well in just about everything. That being said, I'm much rather ski my RX SL for arcing turns on the groomers -- there's nothing like a 68 underfoot for amping up maximum fun on groomed terrain!

    Mike
     
  4. tch

    tch What do I know; I'm just some guy on the internet. Skier

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    Very late to this party, but...why no mention of Head Monster 83?
     
    Josh Matta likes this.
  5. Thread Starter
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    ScottB

    ScottB Getting off the lift Skier

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    good question on the Monster. My answer is that I have race skis, and it seems like a similar ski. I could be very wrong about that and I am curious if it can make short radius turns? I suppose it is really similar to the Kastle MX 84.
     


  6. Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    its is like race ski, that doesnt boot out in crud, and can be skied in glades and bumps pretty easily.
     
  7. Thread Starter
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    ScottB

    ScottB Getting off the lift Skier

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    That sounds like what I am looking for. I will make sure to get on the ski for a demo. Did the Monster 83 go through the "softening" iterations that the Monster 88 did in the last few years? Would a 1-2 year old ski be better for a 240lb skier?
     
  8. ARL67

    ARL67 Invisible Airwaves Crackle With Life Skier

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    Josh I recall you ski the previous Monster 83 in 177.
    At your 200 lbs and high skill-set "on paper" the 177 might seem short for you (to me), as there is some early rise.
    Why the 177 vs the 184 for you ?

    The reason I ask is that a local shop has last year's M83 on sale ( the striped top-sheet ) and I've been eye-balling them all month.
    I'm 5'9" 170lbs Intermediate+ and normally I would go 177 based on the M83 shape. But since you go 177, I'm thinking maybe 170 is the better length for me, but then I can't bring myself to buy a ski like that, that short. It will be used for front-side, hard-snow use from 8:30-Noon where I ski on my 600' hill. Should I just grab a 177 and see how it goes ? thanks ~ Andy
     
  9. Coach13

    Coach13 Out on the slopes Skier

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  10. ARL67

    ARL67 Invisible Airwaves Crackle With Life Skier

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    Coach13 likes this.
  11. trailtrimmer

    trailtrimmer Stuck in the Flatlands Skier

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  12. Thread Starter
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    ScottB

    ScottB Getting off the lift Skier

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    My list with and how I have been thinking about these skis. BTW, I received my new Fischer The Curve DTX yesterday and will ski it tonight while coaching.

    Race derived skis that have some versatility:

    Fischer RC4 The Curv DTX, 178 cm - bought the ski on a close out, couldn't resist, see below for details of the ski.
    Rossignol Hero Elite Plus Ti, 181cm
    K2 Super Charger, 182cm
    Stockli AX, 183 cm

    All mtn skis that are carving biased:

    Fischer RC One 86 GT - "rips, it's what you want. Stop here." It sounds like the best fit for me, will make sure I get on one soon
    K2 Ikonic 84 TI, 184cm
    Kastle MX 84, 184cm
    Fischer Pro Mtn 86 Ti

    I am not sure which category is the right one for me, I suspect it will be the second one and the RC one 86 GT in 182cm might be perfect for what I want.

    I found the Curve DTX for a really great price at a shop in Las Vegas and bought it. Just got it yesterday. They are almost the same ski as my Rose Slant Nose Ti slalom race ski. The DTX is 178 vs 175 and has slightly narrower tips and tails, and a 17m radius versus a 14 m. The DTX is slightly less stiff as well. My Rosi is 5 years old and has broken down some and softened up. I actually like it better now than when it was new and way to stiff for all mtn use. I checked the base bevel on the DTX and it ranged from 0.5 to 1.0 on the same ski, so not impressed with the factory tune, but not a disaster either. I will ski it without a grind for this season.The edges aren't exceptionally sharp either, I will take a file to them after skiing them tonight. I suspect (predict) the DTX will ski a lot like my Rosi as it is very torsionally stiff. It might surprise me and be just relaxed enough to perform like what I am looking for. If it's very close to my Rossi, one of them will be in the For Sale section very soon.

    I suspect the carving biased all mtn category is what I am really looking for. They run a little longer, are even less stiff, are wider and will be better in moguls and in trees. I am not looking for much out of the ski in trees, but I don't want to have to avoid them when on this ski. If I am on my Rosi, I do avoid trees and I ski very slowly through moguls due to how stiff they are. I want the ski to have a relaxed mode as well, and I suspect the race derived skis won't have this. I will let you know what I think of the DTX, it is probably the best shot of a ski in the raced derived category of working for me.
     
  13. François Pugh

    François Pugh Out on the slopes Skier

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    I'm no expert mogul skier; my mogul skiing sucks. However for what it's worth, I find that stiffer skis work better in moguls if you ski them a little faster, not slower.
     
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  14. Thread Starter
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    ScottB

    ScottB Getting off the lift Skier

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    Agree on faster can be better with stiffer skis. I tend to ski up the face of the mogul and make as many carved turns as possible. I slow down because of shin bang from the impact of hitting the mogul head on. I am talking about very very stiff race skis that do not absorb any impact. I have other skis that are stiff, but do absorb some impact and they work better with some speed and skiing thru the troughs. I am talking about volkswagen sized moguls that are irregularly spaced.
     
  15. Thread Starter
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    ScottB

    ScottB Getting off the lift Skier

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    I skied my new Curve DTX's tonight while race coaching. We had 4-6 in of powder on the hill tonight. Things were pretty soft and clumpy. The snow was very light power and you could push it around pretty easily. Not really what the skis were made for, but they skied fine in the snow, no grabby or bad behavior. The edging was a little vague due to the snow. Once I got them on some hard groomed runs they felt very good and the edges had good grip and they felt good carving. In general they felt very good. I didn't get them up to high speeds so I will need to get them to a big mtn to really evaluate them. The biggest impression they made on me was they felt very light compared to my race slalom skis. It felt like I could throw them around easily. I think the flex is going to be just right for me. They are stiff skis, but relative to race skis, they are on the softer side. I will report back once I get them out for a full day up north.
     
  16. Thread Starter
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    ScottB

    ScottB Getting off the lift Skier

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    A couple more days on the Curve DTX's while race coaching (which means I don't get to ski the whole training session, just part of it). I was on hard snow which matches the ski much better. Their carving was good but not great. Their grip was pretty good on the hard snow, which is impressive since the edges are not very sharp, not dull, but nowhere near razor sharp. I like them razor sharp and I will tune the ski soon.

    I A/B'd them against my 2012 Rosi slant nose 9S Ti's and I liked the Rossi's better. The Rosi's have a 14m radius vs the 17m on the DTX's. I could feel the difference in the turning of the skis. To tell the truth, the DTX's didn't feel right and today I tried moving the bindings. This helped a lot and they carve much better now. I can feel the entire edge engage and the turn forces move from the tip to the tail. I had originally set them per the BSL on the binding, but when I checked my boot center mark with the mark on the ski I was about 0.3mm ahead of the mark on the ski. Basically the "system binding" was mounted a little off. Moving them back one click put me just behind the ski mark and that felt better on snow. Next time I ski them I will move them back again to see what the effect is. I do like the binding's ability to adjust the mount position.

    I haven't measured the side edge angle, but before I sharpen them I will see what it is. I plan to put a 3 deg side bevel and get them razor sharp. This will probably really perk up their carving. They do have nice snap and rebound, and feel very light compared to my Rosi's. Moving them back helped them feel better at speed too. I still need to get them out on a big mtn to really judge them. I am on a 250 hill and getting going really fast is just not possible. I ran them across some serious ruts today at the end of the race and they felt reasonably forgiving and not punishing. That is a good sign.
     
  17. Thread Starter
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    ScottB

    ScottB Getting off the lift Skier

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    So here is my wrap up on the Fischer Curv DTX ski. I skied them at a 2000ft mtn, Sunday River last weekend. Great packed powder and 4" fresh snow conditions. I A/B tested the DTX's against the K2 Super Charger and here is my review from the testing:

    https://www.pugski.com/threads/k2-super-charger-vs-fischer-curv-dtx-an-a-b-review.14660/

    To continue on the tune theme, I measured the side edge bevel at 2 deg from the factory. The base varied from 0.5 to 1.0 degree, which will be an issue, and make the ski under perform, and I can feel it. I decided to sharpen the side edges to 3 deg. and make them razor sharp. Well that was a bad idea. It just made the inconsistent base bevel feel worse and the skis felt hooky and would grab/release inconsistently. They have very good grip on ice, even slightly dull, so razor sharp requires a consistent base bevel to go with it. I made sure to knock off any hanging burr, so I don't think that was the issue. Bottom line was after sharpening the skis skied more inconsistently grip wise, and after the first day I took the soft gummi stone to the edges and dulled them just a bit along the entire length. That worked well and the skis became a lot more consistent, with a slightly reduced grip. We had so much snow on Sunday, that it was hard to find hard pack to test on (a nice problem to have). I still wish the tips engaged a little more and or earlier, and maybe a consistent base bevel will improve that.

    I tried moving the binding back some more, but one click back from my BSL (about .3 cm back from the mark) seemed to be the sweet spot for me.They felt great at speed and I did not find their speed limit this weekend. I like that they are a bit softer than a race ski and don't beat you up. They also have somewhat of a "cruise" mode where you can relax to your B game if you want. Just don't crank em on edge, cause they will respond if you do.
     
    Erik Timmerman likes this.
  18. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    I have spent significant time on the Supercharger and a good amount on the DTX. The K2 is a stronger ski for sure, very well the strongest and highest performing ski they have offered in 25 years. It is one of the best hard snow skis on the market. Period. The DTX is a nice ski for sure but the ski with the closer feel to the SC is the Curv GT. A small deciding factor between the K2 and the Fischer is the binding systems, the K2's Marker Xcell with a micor adjusting screw drive will create a slightly better interface.
     
  19. Mike Thomas

    Mike Thomas Whiteroom Pugski Sponsor

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    The system is what will keep me off of the RC One, I just don't want to ski a DIN 12 railflex binding... I don't mind a hostage plate- but I hate system skis.
     
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