Looking for recommendations for getting an alignment done.

Discussion in 'Ski Boot Discussion by America's Best Bootfitters' started by trouts2, May 5, 2019.

  1. trouts2

    trouts2 All camber, on edge, all day. Pass Pulled

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    I’m looking for a trustworthy, capable boot fitter for boots I have. The comfort part is ok. I’m looking for alignment.

    I purchased new boots the last part of 2019 season and skied in them about 9 times. They transformed my skiing in a few big ways compared to my old boots.

    I ski fairly aggressively and often. Over the last three years put in 56, 65 and 90 days on 165 FIS slalom skis (the last two years). People at the mountain have been suggesting I get an alignment as something to get done versus an issue. That and W. Witherell have made me think it is something I should get checked.

    I assume a fitter makes more money for more adjustments so I’m looking for a guy that would say I don’t need anything if that is the case or install just what is needed if was the case.

    Over the years I have dealt with many many boot places and have close to zero confidence in boot sellers or fitters I have dealt with.

    I was thinking an option might be to go to a few places and pay for an evaluation only and let them know up front that I would not be having them do any work.

    I am in Marlbrough, Mass and don’t care about where a good fitter is. Going anywhere in New England would be ok.

    I have gleaned from some Pug posts the following as competent but I am just as interested in honest.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    GMOL, Bill Haight... Green Mountain Orthotics Lab (GMOL) in Vermont
    Nick Blaylock @ Mount Snow Bootworks
    Garrick Dardani... 1/2 hr, The head coach at Jiminy Peak... exceptional.
    PJ Dewey at Race Stock Sports in Waterbury
    Alpine Options Warren, VT
     
  2. LiquidFeet

    LiquidFeet Out on the slopes Instructor

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    Nick Blaylock, definitely. Call and make an appt early.
     
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  3. surfsnowgirl

    surfsnowgirl loves soft bumps, trees and ungroomed Skier

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    Nick Blaylock is my man. Boot works is closed now but will reopen Columbus weekend. His email address is on their website. He books up so I usually email him in September to set something up for October. He rocks.
     
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  4. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Just go het evaluated at Mt Snow, then when there's snow you can try things before ever planing the boots.

    Why do people say you need alignment?
     
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  5. EBG18T

    EBG18T Getting off the lift Skier

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    While I may use PJ for my bootwork, Nick & Bill have stellar reputations and might be easier to get to. If I didn't live where I do, I'd go see Nick or Bill.
     
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  6. Thread Starter
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    trouts2

    trouts2 All camber, on edge, all day. Pass Pulled

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    [QUOTE="James,Why do people say you need alignment?[/QUOTE]

    They said that as a thing to do versus an issue. They suggest I might easily pick up a performance boost.

    Related to that:
    I pronate and have hammer toe but don't think either are an issue when skiing but can't verify that.
    I skied 4.9 of my 5 seasons being back into skiing in boots that very much worked against me and held me back a great deal. I've skied 9 days in the
    new boots and realized my daily exhaustion and reduced performance over the years was due to boots. I can to more things easily since the new boots. That starting happening a few days after getting used to the boots when I started trying to do more . Given the years of difficulties I want to verify the boots are not an issue I don't know about.
     
  7. LiquidFeet

    LiquidFeet Out on the slopes Instructor

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    Boot fit is so important. What was wrong with the old boots? Were they too big in some way? Did the skis wobble when your feet didn't?
     
  8. Thread Starter
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    trouts2

    trouts2 All camber, on edge, all day. Pass Pulled

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    The old boots fit well comfort wise. They are 3 buckle cabrio 70 flex but stiffen when flexed. I tried them against other 130’s in deep fles and they were stiffer than all I tried except for one. I thought that they were fine given the stiff flex. I thought they were like a race boot but that was a big big mistake.

    Over 4 years with them my legs would ache. I’d ski hard 2-3 hours and my legs would burn out. I had to crawl to the car and go home. I thought that normal due to weak legs and I’d just have to put on more muscle.

    Given the extreme daily lactic acid buildup my legs built up and summers I worked out so gained muscle. I found part of the strain was improper form so fixed that. The daily pain lessoned but I still baked out early each day. I still thought that was due to lack of muscle. Each year I put on muscle and could ski longer so I thought all was normal.

    The new boot changed everything. They did not have a 130 so I got the 120. I could ski for hours and did not burn out early. At night my legs did not ach and I could recover by the next day. The upper support at mild flex was completely different. I killed myself for no reason for 4 years. Given the waste of time and the huge improvement in my skiing with the new boots I want to eliminate any possibility of an alignment issue.
     
  9. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    A 70 flex? That's a junior boot. Yet you say it was stiff? Exactly what boot was it?
    Did people tell you you sat back in that boot?
     
  10. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    Nordica had a junior 3 buckle boot a few years ago that was rediculously stiff.
     
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  11. Andy Mink

    Andy Mink I am a half fast skier. Moderator Pugski Ski Tester

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    A 70 flex boot would make YOU work to do everything. Work to get forward, work to get back (not enough oomph in the boot to rebound) and carry your weight on your thighs all the time. The right flex boot assists in all those movements so you won't be as tired. A good fitter will assess you first and then determine if you need any changes in alignment, cant, or fit. I found some cant in my boots plus a little gas pedal made a big difference. I still get tired by not nearly as soon.
     
  12. Thread Starter
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    trouts2

    trouts2 All camber, on edge, all day. Pass Pulled

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    The boot was a Nordica Transfire R3. I got it at the end of my first year of returning to skiing. I did back seat badly often but learned to compensate by pulling the feet back. Over time I skied better and the need to pullback evaporated without my noticing.

    By the 4th year of being back I wanted stiffer boots but had fit problems. I tried bunches of boots but could never find anything. I ended up buying the R1 version of the Transfire which was supposedly stiffer than the R3, expert level, & etc marketing hype. I got it because it fit my feet and stiffer.

    Both boots seemed to be made from the same mold but with different liners. The liner material was different but seemed the same in give and stiffness. The R1 liner came with sheets of thin plastic like material on each side of the liner. I asked a boot fitter about the added plastic and it was his opinion that they would make the boot stiffer. I could not feel any difference in stiffness in mild or deep flex. I swapped liners between boots and did not notice any difference when skiing.

    I called the factory about the boots and asked how they were different. They could not or would not say what the plastic addition to the liner was. I ask about the material for the R1 and R3 shells and they could not say.

    I skied about half a season on the R1. The only difference was the R1 pinched my right ankle a lot. At the end of the season I thought I had permanent ankle damage. It took 3 months for my ankle to stop hurting. I gave up on the R1 and skied all last year in the R3.

    A number of things happened and I bought the Lange SX 120, 29.5 102 last, they did not have 130. The intension was to see if my feet could work in a 4 buckle boot. If it worked I would use that as feedback to buy the right boot later. They work in a big way. The fit is ok and the performance increase amazing. I’ve used them about 9 times and will probably ski in them through at least mid season next year.

    A big difference is the upper flex when skiing more vertical. My legs don’t burn out. The Transfire did not transmit much to the tips easily. The Lange does and quickly. Deep flex seems fine, smoother, and more controlled. I’m not sure if in fast tight turns I’m getting the same flex angle as the Transfire but turns are better. It’s probably very close if not the same. I started being able to do GS like long outside leg extensions with fully flexed inside knee. With the R3 those are a struggle and I can't get COM as low.

    The Lange is better in every way except possibly one. That is on extreme short radius turns. I’m not that good a skier to anything consistently on demand. With the R3, at times I could do super tight radius turns. I tried a couple of times with the Lange’s but the turns were not as tight. The skis would not snap around in the same was as with the R3. It might be due to the R3 allowing my ankles to flex more in deep flex along with deep knee flex. Hard to notice what is going on with all the parts in turns like that. I’ll muck with that type of turn next season but currently everything else is better with the Lange.
     
  13. Thread Starter
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    trouts2

    trouts2 All camber, on edge, all day. Pass Pulled

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    Yes, on all that. After skiing a few days in the new boots I noticed a big difference getting off the couch at night. I could ski longer and when done much less taxed. It is a much different ballgame with the new boots. I now know how much leg effort went into everything I did with the old boots. I have deep regrets about the time and energy wasted on four season of pain. Over the last three seasons I skied 53, 65 and 90 days. Nightly pain and skiing not fully recovered was something I adjusted to. When I got 2-3 days rest I could ski much better the first day but not as well the second and so it went over 4 years. I am aggressively looking forward to next year.
     
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  14. Erik Timmerman

    Erik Timmerman Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    You could go to one of these boot fitters in the summer (I'd choose Bill Haight), and maybe something will stick out at them, but what might be better is to wait until winter and take a lesson with someone that knows alignment. I'd suggest taking some laps with Doug Stewart in Stowe, he is also a boot fitter. He could watch you ski, and then go from there. Brian Whatley at Stratton works with the local boot fitters too.
     
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  15. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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  16. Thread Starter
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    trouts2

    trouts2 All camber, on edge, all day. Pass Pulled

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    How do you know the plastic was different? I did not see any material spec on the sites.

    Some of the factory stamped numbers on various parts are the same. The factory kind of gave me the shuffle when I asked about the various numbers. When I measured or flexed the parts they seemed similar. As a unit when flexing they seemed similar. When skiing they seemed similar. ??

    Yes, they were not a good match for me. They were good for my first year back but should have been up graded then. I kept using them as they fit. I now know that any decent sloppy 102 would have been a big improvement and saved me years of slow progress and pain.

    Yes, all are 29.5. Compared to all the 100’s I’ve tried the Lange SX 102 last to me is like a very slightly roomier 100. It goes on like a 100, big struggle but once in ok. There is slightly more room above the arch which for my foot makes all the difference. It holds my foot tighter than all other 102s I’ve tried. (Many 102’s crushed the outside of my ankles when deeply flexed.) The toe box just fits. All in all the fit is very snug with no hotspots.
     
  17. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    You'd be better off getting work done by someone who can fit boots than wondering about the different parts. It really will make no difference other than curiousity. A fitter might have told you to throw them in the trash.
    But, 53 + 65 + 90 is a lot of days.

    How much space in the shell fits?

    The plastic:

    "Transparent PU Ether" - R1

    "SEBS (styrene-ethylene-butylene-styrene)" - R3

    Under product details, at the bottom of shell materials. Almost no one gives that info usually.

    But, knowing that, what difference does it make? None.
     
  18. Thread Starter
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    trouts2

    trouts2 All camber, on edge, all day. Pass Pulled

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    >>> It really will make no difference other than curiousity.

    To me it would, especially if I found a boot that worked. Places are not loaded with 29.5 boots. I recorded all I tried and eliminated boots that did not fit. Part of it was finding someone that knew my boots well. Few did. I always comparing deep flex with my boot on one foot and the boot I was trying on another. Mine were always stiffer so I thought them more like a race boot and should keep using them.

    None of them ever said” ya but you have to have stiff upper support. You must be burning out your legs.” If any of them made a good case they may have included advice to toss them and I probably would have listened. I had several discussions with two boot fitters at my home area. They both had 30 years experience. One drew a blank. The other suggested I keep them rather than muck with fitting. 102's were mostly out. Punching out a 100 would have been a nightmare.

    >>>How much space in the shell fits?

    All the space in the shell fits.
    Not sure exactly what is asked. Maybe this is about the Lange fit. The Lange seems to fit very well, the toe box is ok for my wide feet but snug, the sides are snug, the heal is gripped well with no side hotspot. That is unusual for me with many 102’s. The above the arch part is also ok which a big problem area. When fully flexed many boots dig into the ankle flex area. My feet are not easy to deal with.

    If you mean lengthwise, they are very tight but ok when flexed.

    Thank you, for the plastic. I missed it. I would not know one plastic from another. I was just interested in if there was a difference. I tried the R1 for about three months but skied in the R3 also. I never felt a difference between them outside of the R1 destroying my right ankle.
     
  19. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Your search for the differences between two terrible for you boots. A 29 shell isn't that unusual. Ankles can be punched.
    The only thing I can tell you is ask for some recommendations on where and go looking in the fall. Bring your old boots, both pair.
     
  20. Thread Starter
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    trouts2

    trouts2 All camber, on edge, all day. Pass Pulled

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    Got an alignment evaluation today from fitters that have 40+ years of experience. The assessment was my left leg leans in ½ degree. I asked about fore aft. He said the boot comes from the factory like it is and nothing he could do with it. It seemed like I was the one to go to him with what I needed like I feel this going on and I think I need x amount of heal angle, lift or something like that. I thought he would have some way to evaluate fore and aft of me in the boot as a starting point. I also thought a boot check might be done to insure it was to spec like bottom to cuff at zero cant.

    The place is in a city not a resort so interactive evaluation not possible other than have something done and go back with feedback. ? I’ll probably just wait until fall and go to Mount Snow.
     

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