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Looking for recommendation for GS(r) skis

Nobody

Out of my mind, back in five.
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...

Eurotest is 18% behind FIS 0 (a WC winning result). So I have about as much chance to pass an eurotest, as the winners our masters races has to win a WC race... Not very good chances ;-)
The Eurotest new name is CTT ("Common Training Test"; Italian : "Prova Formativa" Comune or "PFC-T"). Candidates time must be at maximum (to qualify) 19% behind for men and 25 behind % for women, from the Time of Reference, which calculation formula is : "the average time of the fore runs and after runs average times of the two best times (out of three pacesetters) , normalized with their (= the pacesetters) parameter of reference" (hence the pacesetters nickname "Parameteers")...what an headache!
Source : https://www.collegionazionalemaestridisci.it/Documenti/Regolamento_PFC-T_2020.pdf
 

Peter P

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This!. If your plan is to ski Masters sets which are 23--27, as opposed to typically 18-20m (isa) beer league stuff you really are better on a proper GS ski 23ish m . The problem with going to a small radius one is that it is more for short term gratification at the expense of longer term race skilsl development. It typically leads to running straight at gates and relying on skidding the ski which becomes an even harder habit to break when you basically plateau for speed and have to change (as well as having less stability when you get some real speed up and creates the risk of it hooking up suddenly and throwing you).

To get faster and ski GS well then requires taking a step backwards again to relearn skills and tactics. The most common issue I see with new racers struggling with a real GS ski is technique issues - not getting much angles and insufficient separation of the skis to provide a platform that will allow you to develop the angles needed to pressure and bend the ski. With the shorter radius you simply ride the sidecut.

Also lengthwise, especially at your height, I would definitely avoid going below 180. this simply exacerbates the problem as now you not only ride the sidecut you skid the ski because there is not enough length to really carve it in gates, PeRsonally I would have pointed you at the U16 ski given your weight. People get hung up on the radius being too big when in reality the flex pattern is much more important. I also didn't see what boot you were in. If it is not enough boot you will struggle with a GS ski. The 188/30 is a great ski but does take a certain level of technical skill to make it work in gates, I do not normally recommend it as the first ski for a new athlete.

I see your update that you got the head iSpeed. Not too terrible a choice for a starting point (and really glad you didn't get the 175!) but if your progression path is planned towards Masters, work on growing out of it.
[/QUOTE]

Hi Scott, I need some advice. I just moved to Park City Area. I am 48 years young. 185 lbs 5' 11". No real race training in my past but love speed and ski quite aggressively. Want to sign up for Master's training next winter - not the entire season but just 5 days to get primed up - maybe 2021 I will go for the whole season if I enjoy it. Will also practice a lot on NASTAR. Right now, I only have one pair of skis. New Stockli Stormrider 95. I have a deposit down on the upcoming Stockli WRT-ST 180 ... cross ski ... I think the radius is around 17 but supposed to be as stable as a GS ski. After reading your threads I am getting the feeling I should change my order to Laser GS with radius closer to 20. I really wanted to start with ultimate cheater ski! You broke my heart! lol Please advise. btw I love Stockli products. Thanks, Peter
 

ScotsSkier

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Hi Peter
If you are committed to the Stockli, I would definitely change the order to Laser GS. Another alternative would be to buy a cheap used GS ski. Bit realistically the laser GS will work better than the Crossski, whatever you are using it for. If you are going to train slalom the cross would Not work for that anyway so budget for a cheap slalom as well. Welcome to Masters! They have a great program at Park city
 
Last edited:

Peter P

Booting up
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Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Posts
74
Location
Park City, UT
Hi Peter
If you are committed to the Stockli, I would definitely change the order to Laser GS. Another alternative would be to buy a cheap used GS ski. Bit realistically the laser GS will work better than the Crossmembers\, whatever you are using it for. If you are going to train slalom the cross would Not work for that anyway so budget for a cheap slalom as well. Welcome to Masters! They have a greta program at Park city

What about this instead?
Stockli WRT GS FIS in 176cm = 22
or 184 = 24

How can a ski be advertised as a FIS ski if the length is not officially FIS? never understood that
 

Nobody

Out of my mind, back in five.
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Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
1,277
Location
Ponte di legno Tonale
(I guess the below quote belongs to ScotSkier)
This!. If your plan is to ski Masters sets which are 23--27, as opposed to typically 18-20m (isa) beer league stuff you really are better on a proper GS ski 23ish m . The problem with going to a small radius one is that it is more for short term gratification at the expense of longer term race skilsl development. It typically leads to running straight at gates and relying on skidding the ski which becomes an even harder habit to break when you basically plateau for speed and have to change (as well as having less stability when you get some real speed up and creates the risk of it hooking up suddenly and throwing you).

To get faster and ski GS well then requires taking a step backwards again to relearn skills and tactics. The most common issue I see with new racers struggling with a real GS ski is technique issues - not getting much angles and insufficient separation of the skis to provide a platform that will allow you to develop the angles needed to pressure and bend the ski. With the shorter radius you simply ride the sidecut.

Also lengthwise, especially at your height, I would definitely avoid going below 180. this simply exacerbates the problem as now you not only ride the sidecut you skid the ski because there is not enough length to really carve it in gates, PeRsonally I would have pointed you at the U16 ski given your weight. People get hung up on the radius being too big when in reality the flex pattern is much more important. I also didn't see what boot you were in. If it is not enough boot you will struggle with a GS ski. The 188/30 is a great ski but does take a certain level of technical skill to make it work in gates, I do not normally recommend it as the first ski for a new athlete.

I see your update that you got the head iSpeed. Not too terrible a choice for a starting point (and really glad you didn't get the 175!) but if your progression path is planned towards Masters, work on growing out of it.

Hi Scott, I need some advice. I just moved to Park City Area. I am 48 years young. 185 lbs 5' 11". No real race training in my past but love speed and ski quite aggressively. Want to sign up for Master's training next winter - not the entire season but just 5 days to get primed up - maybe 2021 I will go for the whole season if I enjoy it. Will also practice a lot on NASTAR. Right now, I only have one pair of skis. New Stockli Stormrider 95. I have a deposit down on the upcoming Stockli WRT-ST 180 ... cross ski ... I think the radius is around 17 but supposed to be as stable as a GS ski. After reading your threads I am getting the feeling I should change my order to Laser GS with radius closer to 20. I really wanted to start with ultimate cheater ski! You broke my heart! lol Please advise. btw I love Stockli products. Thanks, Peter
Thanks Peter for bringing back into (my) focus the above message from ScotSkier
Just came home from a week U3 (level equivalent to the american =L3) course , to get the the certification one needs to race a GS course (simple for racers, about 25-30 gates, 30ish secs) but not so simple for non racers or people without a racing background...
The above is 100% hitting the target (in my case). I had two runs with an "old" Blizzard WRC 186@21mt (def non FIS), and two runs with a "newer" Voelkl GS-R 183@25mt (FIS), the fastest time I registered was with the Blizzards, onthe second run, still off the qualification time...In a desperate attempt to make up speed I switched to the Voelkls, only to discover that my times were getting worse rather than better. The reason? Exactly what said above, instead of arcing the turns and keeping speed up, I was skidding too much with the longest radius skis, while with the Blizzard (more shaped) I was limiting the amount of skidding (arching more and keeping up speed)...I simply had (have) not enough mileage on the Voelkl to know them well enough to feel comfortable and exploit their characteristics. And not enough training (only begun to train - somehow seriously - this past august 2019).
Oh well, back to training...


What about this instead?
Stockli WRT GS FIS in 176cm = 22
or 184 = 24

How can a ski be advertised as a FIS ski if the length is not officially FIS? never understood that
Don't know really, but couldn't they be meant for younger categories of athletes?
 

Peter P

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Posts
74
Location
Park City, UT
Hi Peter
If you are committed to the Stockli, I would definitely change the order to Laser GS. Another alternative would be to buy a cheap used GS ski. Bit realistically the laser GS will work better than the Crossski, whatever you are using it for. If you are going to train slalom the cross would Not work for that anyway so budget for a cheap slalom as well. Welcome to Masters! They have a great program at Park city

I ended up ordering Stockli WRT SX 185 with radius of ~23 ... a little bit of cheating needed :)
 

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